D&D 5E Three level 7 PCs vs a Roc in an open field...

[CTurbo]

Are you doing anything to compensate for the added benefits you are giving the Roc? You are making it immune to trip attacks, stunning, and fear.

Do you think that it should be able to be stunned or tripped by a small/medium creature punching it? I can see it POSSIBLY being frightened just as a person will run from a hornet/wasp.

 

[iserith]

By the numbers, it's above a Deadly challenge for 3 "baseline" 7th-level PCs. A Deadly encounter "could" be lethal for one or more player characters. But these characters have some gear, good ACs, and stats. I will assume the players are pretty competent because they're asking for higher difficulty. If they use good tactics and quick thinking, they will reduce the difficulty of the challenge accordingly.

I'd say therefore it's fine, though I would not backdoor nerf anyone's class features. You can take it down from Deadly to Hard with some terrain favorable to the PCs. I suggest some 15- to 20-feet deep pits or craters which will put them outside the roc's reach. If all PCs are in pits, the roc gives up and seeks out other prey. To make it more of a meaningful decision to take cover in the pits, throw some swarms of poisonous snakes in them.

 

[Aenorgreen]

Do you think that it should be able to be stunned or tripped by a small/medium creature punching it? I can see it POSSIBLY being frightened just as a person will run from a hornet/wasp.

I think powers should work as they are described. It is not a realistic game, you are already fine with a bird big enough to carry an elephant, what is so odd about using ki to stun it? If you start going down the path of what really works, the game falls apart.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

For what it's worth, the last I knew the trip maneuver from the battlemaster class doesn't work on creatures larger then large. So that isn't a nerf to the battlemaster if it doesn't work.

As for stunning it, I would suggest it be allowed. Ki manipulation and all that sort of stuff, especially by a monk of the long death makes perfect sense to me. The same with the fear effect. It's not just the monk flexing and being spooky. It's a supernatural ability involving their relationship with death and the study of it. Of course these are just my opinion.

Freedom of Movement ( 4th level War Cleric domain spell ) could prove to be useful in playing bait for the roc while the others try to make it to safety.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I think powers should work as they are described. It is not a realistic game, you are already fine with a bird big enough to carry an elephant, what is so odd about using ki to stun it? If you start going down the path of what really works, the game falls apart.

You're thinking of fourth edition. Fifth edition operates under the premise that we don't need every rule to be codified, and the DM is allowed to make common sense calls for how the world works. Even under the premise of a fantastic world, common sense says that a Roc is too big to care about such minor annoyances.

 

[Henry]

I think powers should work as they are described. It is not a realistic game, you are already fine with a bird big enough to carry an elephant, what is so odd about using ki to stun it? If you start going down the path of what really works, the game falls apart.

I have to agree with [MENTION=6793508]Aenorgreen[/MENTION] -- first, there's nothing rules as written indicating the Roc is immune to these abilities, large or small, and the stunning is just as magical as the Roc's ability to ignore the square-cubed law; Rules as Intended, it doesn't appear the designers meant for the creature to be immune to these things. Rules as Fun, there's quite a bit of heroic imagery in a trained fighter clipping a giant bird's wing just enough to unbalance it and knock it out of the sky long enough to escape, or for the Monk to hit the right nerve cluster to discombobulate it for a few seconds; for something with that high a CON score, it won't stay that way for long.

If it's a special creature (The Chaos Roc of the Mindspin Mountains!) then it's one thing to have extra immunities; but just assuming a creature is immune because "it makes sense" should be done judiciously, because it just doesn't hold up in a world with undead, bird kaiju and people casting spells, anyway.

EDIT - I'll grant you the one on trip maneuver not working; if the ability says it maxes at Large, then so be it.

 

[Aenorgreen]

You're thinking of fourth edition. Fifth edition operates under the premise that we don't need every rule to be codified, and the DM is allowed to make common sense calls for how the world works. Even under the premise of a fantastic world, common sense says that a Roc is too big to care about such minor annoyances.

If they do make such rulings, they need to understand that is making the combats harder and make adjustments to balance it. That was the point of my original post, that there should be some complisation for the nerfing of expected abilities. A DM could also make a logical ruling that daggers cannot possibly hurt such a large creature, but expect the dagger-wielding rogue to ask what they are supposed to do.

 

[Henry]

You're thinking of fourth edition. Fifth edition operates under the premise that we don't need every rule to be codified, and the DM is allowed to make common sense calls for how the world works. Even under the premise of a fantastic world, common sense says that a Roc is too big to care about such minor annoyances.

Under those assumptions, common sense says that the Roc should be too big to even maneuver except in straight lines while flying; such a large creature couldn't change direction fast enough to catch a small human in an open field, too much room for the human to maneuver.

Also, common sense says that, for its size, the Roc would starve to death before hunting for enough prey to sustain its diet.

Dangerous word, that "common sense."

 

[CTurbo]

Alright alright... to keep from making a very hard encounter even harder, I'll stick to RAW on the stunning and frightened conditions.


I'm still having a hard time seeing the three of them surviving this. It just seems too "all or none" with the Roc attacking the party. It seems they would have to completely avoid getting attacked at all. Sure it's POSSIBLE that the Roc would miss it's talon attack but with +13 to hit, it's not likely.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Alright alright... to keep from making a very hard encounter even harder, I'll stick to RAW on the stunning and frightened conditions.

I'm still having a hard time seeing the three of them surviving this. It just seems too "all or none" with the Roc attacking the party. It seems they would have to completely avoid getting attacked at all. Sure it's POSSIBLE that the Roc would miss it's talon attack but with +13 to hit, it's not likely.

If you want to slant it a little bit more in the players' favor, do any or all of the following:

(1) place a herd of wild horses somewhere within an hour's journey of where they meet the roc.
(2) ensure that the terrain has craters, trees, etc. in it for the player characters to hide in.
(3) warn them well in advance of the roc's approach. Perhaps they see its shadow circling over them a good ten minutes before it actually decides to stoop to attack.

This gives them a ton of additional options, including hiding until the roc goes away and then going back to catch horses to ride and/or to feed to the roc. Of course they might just decide to fight it--even then, you can have the roc quit as soon as it gets what it wants, presumably a meal.

(Although if you listen to Henry you may decide that the roc needs to eat so much that it won't be satisfied with only one PC. It may end up consuming a whole herd of wild horses and all three PCs. )