Tiamat and Bahamut--Why Use Real World Mythology?

[The Little Raven]

They're fine. They may have come about by a strange route, but they exist on their own with no ties to Earth.

Paladine aka "Bah'Mut"
Takhisis aka "Tii'Mhut"

I think those connections are stronger than you suggest. They're essentially variations of D&D's Tiamat and Bahamut. If you have a problem with the D&D versions, then the Dragonlance versions should be equally guilty.

 

[JamesP]

Howard had an intense love for history and historical dramas; however, at the same time, he recognized the difficulties and the time-consuming research work needed in maintaining historical accuracy. By conceiving a timeless setting — a vanished age — that was not ours but that may once have been ours and by carefully choosing names that resembled our past history, Howard avoided the problem of historical anachronisms and the need for lengthy exposition.

You forced my hand, internet! Now I've started down the dark road to grognardism from which there can be no escape...

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

My own personal internet grognard, the one who lives inside the light house in my soul, is pretty insistent on the fact that mixing up bits and pieces of different real world mythologies, contemporary fantasy tropes, and odd pop cultural references into a delicious literary tossed salad, or champloo if you will, is the essence of DnDismo.

The moment DnD starts becoming purely one thing or another is the moment I fail to edition up.

 

[Reaper Steve]

It cracks me up when people attack REH for 'borrowing' real-world elements and barely changing their names to suit his purposes as if he was some kind of hack.
He knew full well what he was doing!
Such an approach provides the reader with instant familiarity. A few Norse-sounding names is all it takes to make the reader envision an entire culture, without having to describe it. REH did this for the great Europe-Africa-Asia conglomeration in the Conan books, and look at him now! (Well, other than the being dead part.)

Bahamut and Tiamat are iconic to D&D. These versions just happen to share names with actual mythological ones, but not much else. Just like I'm totally different from that other dude name Steve.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Bahamut and Tiamat are iconic to D&D. These versions just happen to share names with actual mythological ones, but not much else. Just like I'm totally different from that other dude name Steve.

Your parents were hacks! They should have made up a whole new name, like Steev, instead!

 

[Kobu]

I know it's an Internetism -- partially because I've never heard anyone actually say such a thing in real life -- but a difference of opinion does not constitute a lack of knowledge on a subject.

In this case, REH (whom you seemed unaware of a page ago) may have claimed his setting was Earth, but so did Tolkien. In both cases, they invented maps, cultures and histories. That they might have been inspired by real world history does not make either one truly set there, any more than tales set in Atlantis or Lemuria are set on Earth. Less so, in fact, since Atlantis at least has Plato sticking up for it.

Sorry, I can't believe that anyone who has read any of the stories could fail to grasp that they are set on Earth, especially when the author takes labors to point it out in the stories. I also don't think alternate opinions on it are valid when the author explicitly states that it is Earth.

The point here though is that an author throwing in a god from Earth's mythology into a story set on Earth shouldn't give anyone pause.

Paladine aka "Bah'Mut"
Takhisis aka "Tii'Mhut"

I think those connections are stronger than you suggest. They're essentially variations of D&D's Tiamat and Bahamut. If you have a problem with the D&D versions, then the Dragonlance versions should be equally guilty.

No, they've done in Dragonlance exactly what I am suggesting. If the gods have little resemblance to the original gods from mythology they are named after, change the names. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by Earth mythology, but there's no need to grab proper names at the same time.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Sorry, I can't believe that anyone who has read any of the stories could fail to grasp that they are set on Earth, especially when the author takes labors to point it out in the stories. I also don't think alternate opinions on it are valid when the author explicitly states that it is Earth.

Hyboria is "Earth", in that it is a fantastic, fictional "pre-prehistory" of our world. That said, apart from the names and the fact there are humans around, Hyboria isn't any more Earth than any other fantasy world that draws upon real-world historical and mythological roots.

 

[.:avatar:.]

Heh... what then about Orcus and Asmodeus being names of christian demonology? Consider also that both will probably be dieties in 4e!

I wonder if that will be more a problem than Tiamat, which is light years away from its mythological roots

 

[Klaus]

Heh... what then about Orcus and Asmodeus being names of christian demonology? Consider also that both will probably be dieties in 4e!

I wonder if that will be more a problem than Tiamat, which is light years away from its mythological roots

Orcus is actually the Roman god of the underworld (he and Pluto together are a match for Hades).

 

[kennew142]

I'm going to be honest. I think this whole argument is kind of silly. Most D&D players have no problem with the names Bahamut and Tiamat, and couldn't care less that they are real world names applies to D&D entities. If you don't like it, change it in your game. To insist that the rest of the D&D playing world change to suit your tastes is hubristic.

I don't care that Orcus is an ancient Etruscan-Roman death god, that Asmodeus has his roots in Judeo-Christian mysticism, that Tiamat and Bahamut are originally ancient semitic gods/demons. My degrees are all in ancient history, literature and religion, and it would never have occurred to me to get worked up these issues. The D&D entities are reimagined creatures based on the evocative feel of the name. Authors borrow names and imagery from one another all the time. The yog-sothoth of HP Lovecraft isn't exactly the same as the yog-sothoth of Clark Ashton-Smith, Robert E. Howard or August Derleth (let alone the authors of Doctor Who novels).

I am not really trying to belittle the OP (this issue obvious bothers him quite a bit), but I seriously doubt that the average D&D player is bothered by this borrowing in any way. Many of us have been using Bahamut, Tiamat, Orcus, Asmodeus (et alii) from the beginning, and have many fine memories of conflict with their minions.