Tiefling as a core race?

[Wormwood]

Confirmed.

I was unclear.

Do we really know what the term, "Tiefling" actually means in 4e.

 

[s.j. bagley]

eh, it makes sense from a marketing perspective to chumps a race of antihero characters with which to further their chumpdom.

 

[Nifft]

Oh, come on.... no one in D&D is actually exceptional until about 4th level.

They're supposedly using SW Saga as one of their pre-4e tests, so that may no longer be the case. SW Saga has a very nice power level for Heroic classes even at 1st level.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Wormwood]

Yes, but it's a staple of today's fantasy. Anime, TV shows and the like. If it was a staple of old school fantasy EGG would've had em I would think.

And since D&D encompasses fantasy outside the "old-school", I really don't see the problem.

 

[Mortellan]

Ever heard of Merlin? Or Elric of Melbourne?

When you ask people what's the first thing they think of when they hear Merlin, it's wizard. Elric its the sword Stormbringer. Whatever these characters have to do with half-demons and spirits is purely secondary or tertiary to the fiction. Bring tieflings as a base race just redefines a world. THat is why I think warforged is a much worse choice for a core race given all things.

 

[Mortellan]

And since D&D encompasses fantasy outside the "old-school", I really don't see the problem.

The problem is minor but it has to do with long running campaigns. Some people still do those. Tieflings started AFAIK in Planescape so for those who still use the setting this is pie. In the GH campaign like mine, tiefling characters can easily be accounted for given all the demonic influences. But the more they tinker with base races the more it can alter the settings feel is all I worry about. I remember a minor outrage with 3e allowing dwarves to be wizards and so on. People get over it eventually.

 

[Mallus]

Yes, but it's a staple of today's fantasy. Anime, TV shows and the like. If it was a staple of old school fantasy EGG would've had em I would think.

Don't get me wrong, EGG has some fantastically eclectic interests, but to think that he conceived of everything that might rightly be considered fantasy, or at least appropriate for D&D, is silly.

Besides, stories about half-demon and spirit folk are 1) really old and 2) found in many cultures. They just got popularized recently by anime

 

[Nifft]

When you ask people what's the first thing they think of when they hear Merlin, it's wizard. Elric its the sword Stormbringer.

That's a silly argument, and I'm sure you know it.

"Merlin! First thing you think of?"
"Human Wizard, right? Okay, we'll use Elminster's stats."
"Uh, no, Merlin is a bit different."
"Different? How?"

There are many components to a character. Modeling one accurately requires many degrees of freedom. Tieflings may have their uses.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Someone]

Apparently Changelings made too their way into core, unles they are pulling our collective leg.

 

[Mr. Beef]

I'm not that into introducing new races that much

Tiefling's as a core race I'm still waffling on. If I knew more about Tiefling's in the D&D game then I might be able to judge it better, but for right now it just sounds like some fan's pipe dream.

I'm tired of having half-races. That's why in the game I was going to run I was totally eliminating the half-races. I saw nothing good coming out of them other than some boosts to stats and maybe some role-playing opportunities if the DM was into that sort of thing.

The people that I played with in the game I played in for 3.0/3.5; we had a grand total of one half-elf and that's all for the half races. Everyone else was either Human, Dwarf or Elf I think we even had a Halfling for a few games but that player stopped coming to games.

If they are going to eliminate one PC race in favor of adding another half-race then that is just the first strike against WotC for D&D 4th edition in my book.

If we are going to be adding a "new" PC race then it might as well be Kobold; although that might be tough if they eliminate the Sorcerer as a class.