Tiers Excerpt (merged)

[HeinorNY]

I'm slightly disappointed at what seems like a low number of powers (I like neat things, I admit), but I'm willing to see how it all plays out.

I also had that feeling at first regarding the Wizard and Cleric.
But then I remembered that table is for everyone. The wizard gets more Daily Powers since he can choose those he wants to use for the day, and he also gain cantrips which are not included in the table.
Clerics probably gain more powers too. The pregen Cleric has 3 at-wills, and 4 encounters, plus the encounter gained from the Feat.

So in that table are not the Powers from feats, racial Powers, Cantrips and other "Class Feature" Powers, and powers from magic items.
Some Characters will probably have some 25-30 powers, or even more, on their menu.

 

[Vaeron]

This should make games like mine that have more PC-race foes than monstrous foes interesting and deadly.

Unless, of course, the NPC classes take this into consideration and are similarly asymmetric.

If you look at Monsters & More, where monster stats have been compiled, even PC race foes are calculated as monsters, not as PCs... ie the Human Mage has monster-level hitpoints and only a couple spells. No reason I suppose that you couldn't make enemies that work just like PCs, but it seems they would in general be weaker than their monstrous counterparts.

 

[Kishin]

Keep in mind that you'll also have up to 8-10 other abilities from your magic items.

Plus, feats (which look like 6 feats / tier) may be usable for training abilities like the half-elf's where you can take another class's at-will as a per-encounter or maybe another class's encounter power as a per-day?

Ah, well said. I had forgotten about items.

The recharge mechanic for limited powers also interests me. Perhaps its one of the 'expanded' usages of action points?

 

[breschau]

My head's going to explode.

 

[MaelStorm]

A minor nitpick I have with power progression is that you only have 2 at-will power. I'd prefer a little bit more variety as you progress (i.e. you can change your 2 at-will powers at paragon and epic tier with new ones). But I will get over this. I love everything else.

 

[Vaeron]

A minor nitpick I have with power progression is that you only have 2 at-will power. I'd prefer a little bit more variety as you progress (i.e. you can change your 2 at-will powers at paragon and epic tier with new ones). But I will get over this. I love everything else.

You might be able to swap them out as you progress. The section on higher level characters dealt mostly with encounter, dailys, and utilities. All it really says is "You know two at-will powers from your class; remember to increase damage if your level is 21st or higher. " It doesn't really say those will be the *same* two at-will powers you pick up at 1st level.

At least I hope not. That would be boring!!

 

[MaelStorm]

You might be able to swap them out as you progress. The section on higher level characters dealt mostly with encounter, dailys, and utilities. All it really says is "You know two at-will powers from your class; remember to increase damage if your level is 21st or higher. " It doesn't really say those will be the *same* two at-will powers you pick up at 1st level.

At least I hope not. That would be boring!!

QFT. We'll see June 6.

 

[ShockMeSane]

A few points

Hey guys, been lurking here for quite awhile, but the last few updates finally got me excited enough to register.

With that out of the way, a couple points:

*While only 2 "at-will" powers may seem kind of low, keep in mind that this number can very possibly be increased by class features, feats, certain paragon paths, race, etc. From the pre-gens we already know this is the case. Additionally, you will have encounter abilities from many of your magic items. If you really look at it, a level 20+ character will be able to have at "minimum", completely disregarding any of the aforementioned possibilities, 2 at wills, 4 encounter, 4 daily, and 5(up to 7 at 30) utility powers to use in any given combat. This is 15 viable options per round, and it makes the wild assumption that you will not be using your items or gaining any other powers through feats/class specific features, etc. Honestly, outside of a Wizard (and even then... it was a close thing) I never felt I had 15 legitimate options in 3.x during a combat round. Certainly not as a melee class.

Also, keep in mind that these are "combat" powers. Spellcasters will have access to Rituals as well, and although we do not have much information on them, I think it is safe to say that the the "Powers by Class Level" chart is not the breadth of what your character can accomplish.

* While it may be old news to some, this is the first time I've seen that Constitution is a one time hit point modifier. Under the 3.x rules, 18 Con vs 8 Con at 30th level would be a 150 hit point difference. If it is now merely a 10 hit point difference, this is (to borrow an MMO term) a massive nerf to CON (and in a roundabout way, a massive buff to the "Toughness" feat that we've seen). Additionally, if your Fort Defense is based on the highest of either your STR or CON modifier, I don't see any particular incentive for Defenders to worry about massive CON scores. This assumption precludes requirements for Feats, Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies, ect.

Anyways, very exciting stuff!

 

[small pumpkin man]

* While it may be old news to some, this is the first time I've seen that Constitution is a one time hit point modifier. Under the 3.x rules, 18 Con vs 8 Con at 30th level would be a 150 hit point difference. If it is now merely a 10 hit point difference, this is (to borrow an MMO term) a massive nerf to CON (and in a roundabout way, a massive buff to the "Toughness" feat that we've seen). Additionally, if your Fort Defense is based on the highest of either your STR or CON modifier, I don't see any particular incentive for Defenders to worry about massive CON scores. This assumption precludes requirements for Feats, Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies, ect.

Anyways, very exciting stuff!

The amount of healing surges (and thus healing per day) you have is based of con. Most non-defenders in a party with a defender won't care, but a defender, or any other character shuffled into the meatshield role will.

 

[HeinorNY]

Using the information we got from the Excerpts, Pregens and some speculation, I think this is a probable progression.

Level	Power
1	2 [COLOR=Green]At-Will[/COLOR], [COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR], Daily, [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
2	[COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
3	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
4	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
5	Daily
6	[COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
7	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
8	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
9	Daily
10	[COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR]

11	[COLOR=Red]Paragon Encounter[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
12	[COLOR=Sienna]Paragon Utility[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
13	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
14	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
15	Daily
16	[COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
17	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
18	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
19	Daily
20	Paragon Daily

21	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
22	[COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
23	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
24	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
25	Daily
26	[COLOR=Sienna]Epic Utility[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
27	[COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
28	[COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]*
29	Daily
30

*: Speculative