Tiers Excerpt (merged)

[D'karr]

hehe, maybe there is no level 30... Maybe, you gain experience to level 30, but upon reaching the end goal, the game just says, "congratulations, You're now a story device."

Level 30 is known as the "There is no spoon level"

 

[TwinBahamut]

Perhaps at level 30, you fully realize your "Epic Destiny" and thus unlock something unique to that Destiny.

I 100% certain that, at level 30, you get some kind capstone "ultimate class feature" from either your class, your destiny, or both. Enough things like that exist in the 3.0 PHB, after all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one level-30 reward was "you are now a demi-god", followed up by a long list of amazing properties of being a demi-god, including complete immortality.

 

[D'karr]

I 100% certain that, at level 30, you get some kind capstone "ultimate class feature" from either your class, your destiny, or both. Enough things like that exist in the 3.0 PHB, after all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one level-30 reward was "you are now a demi-god", followed up by a long list of amazing properties of being a demi-god, including complete immortality.

Yeah, I really hope they don't make the same mistake they made with 3.x where some classes got nothing exciting at 20th level.

Maybe the stuff you get at that level is more dependent on your race or specific Epic Destiny.

 

[Darkness]

Now to wait for the "but I don't want my first level character to be a hero." "Everyone should start as a dirt farmer" crowd.

I think the simplest fix for this would be creating rules for level 0 characters and using that as starting point instead of level 1.

 

[Campbell]

While it may be old news to some, this is the first time I've seen that Constitution is a one time hit point modifier. Under the 3.x rules, 18 Con vs 8 Con at 30th level would be a 150 hit point difference. If it is now merely a 10 hit point difference, this is (to borrow an MMO term) a massive nerf to CON (and in a roundabout way, a massive buff to the "Toughness" feat that we've seen). Additionally, if your Fort Defense is based on the highest of either your STR or CON modifier, I don't see any particular incentive for Defenders to worry about massive CON scores. This assumption precludes requirements for Feats, Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies, ect.

While I agree that Constitution will not be as critical of a stat as it was in 3e I think it will at least be fairly important for Defenders since your number of Healing Surges is modified by your Constitution modifier which means that the difference between an Constitution score of 18 and 8 can mean roughly +125% of your max hp over the course of a day. A high Constitution score might not have a significant impact on the punishment you can take right now, but it will have an appreciable impact on how long you can go between extended rests.

 

[AZRogue]

Awesome, awesome excerpt. This is great, WotC. This kind of info we can really sink our teeth into and we appreciate it! I love what I see so far. Very, very nicely done.

My one complaint is that I don't like losing previous Encounter/Daily powers, but it looks like, upon further reading, that this doesn't have to be the case.

If you kept your previous powers, just because I hate the idea of "forgetting" them, it would add up to, I think (it's late), a total of:

2 At-will
8 Encounter
8 Daily
7 Utility

That's a total of 25 abilities, which isn't that far off 17. Doesn't it say you can keep your old powers if you want? I think this would be possible, and not overly powerful (ESPECIALLY in a low magic-item campaign). When it says that the powers aren't cumulative I think they mean you don't choose another Encounter power at 2nd level, even though it says "1" in the encounter power column. That just represents your 1 encounter power from 2nd level. They aren't cumulative.

That combined with the "but you can keep your lower level ones if you wish" comment leads me to believe that you can have a total of 25 powers, not 17, if you wish. At least that is how it looks to me.

 

[Khuxan]

Each time you choose a new power, you should have a choice between around 4 powers. I say this because there are 21 places you acquire new class powers, and we know the druid has roughly 80 powers (at least in its first draft).

 

[TwinBahamut]

While I agree that Constitution will not be as critical of a stat as it was in 3e I think it will at least be fairly important for Defenders since your number of Healing Surges is modified by your Constitution modifier which means that the difference between an Constitution score of 18 and 8 can mean roughly +125% of your max hp over the course of a day. A high Constitution score might not have a significant impact on the punishment you can take right now, but it will have an appreciable impact on how long you can go between extended rests.

Not to mention the fact that, supposedly, there are axe powers that depend on Constitution, which means that Con can now be used as an offensive stat, rather than merely a defensive one. Also, isn't there now a new skill or two that depends on Con? It is no longer so absolutely important for survival, but it seems a lot more flexible now.

 

[dystmesis]

I think the simplest fix for this would be creating rules for level 0 characters and using that as starting point instead of level 1.

Easy. You get your con score to your HP and nothing else. You get no special bonus to any of your saves. You have no special powers or abilities except those granted by your race and possibly feats.

Skills might be the hard part.

 

[Ondo]

My one complaint is that I don't like losing previous Encounter/Daily powers, but it looks like, upon further reading, that this doesn't have to be the case.

I'm pretty sure you have to forgot one of your earlier powers - the table assumes you'll chose your lowest level power to forget, but you could forget a higher-level one instead.