Tiers Excerpt (merged)

[AZRogue]

I'm pretty sure you have to forgot one of your earlier powers - the table assumes you'll chose your lowest level power to forget, but you could forget a higher-level one instead.

You're probably right, but unless the new powers are clearly built off of the older ones (like natural progressions of the same ability) then I think "forgetting" an old ability when you get a new one is too much of a disconnect for me. It's like a bad Reese's peanut buttercups commerical--they got their Vancian in my martial combat abilities. And they don't taste great together.

 

[D'karr]

The thing about powers is that you can still only use them once per round, or twice with the expenditure of an action point. So even if you get to keep your older powers all it does is give you more versatility. A low level power might or might not be appropriate for the level you want to use it at, but at that point who cares?

 

[AZRogue]

The thing about powers is that you can still only use them once per round, or twice with the expenditure of an action point. So even if you get to keep your older powers all it does is give you more versatility. A low level power might or might not be appropriate for the level you want to use it at, but at that point who cares?

I agree. We are going to be gaining new powers from magical items, as they've already said. I don't think it would be that game breaking to let players keep their older powers instead of "trading" them in like they're Toyotas. Probably wouldn't use them much, but they should BE there, IMO.

 

[AntiPaladin]

I was most surprised by the HP chart, as players level up the total difference between a fighter and wizard will shrink relative to each other. Also the +7HP vs. +9HP at character generation seems odd. Simplicity is always welcome I suppose. That extra 2HP will make very little difference at the EDT.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Why El Rouse, with these frequent updates you are really spoiling us! </ferrerorocher>

The table looks great for constructing high-level characters, but I hope there's a clearer one (as constructed somewhere earlier in the thread) where you can view your advancement. The tiers look like they'll work really well - as you reach a new one you slowly transfer your feats and powers into upgraded versions, ready to top out for the next tier. They should eliminate the grinding aspect that many level-up games suffer.

 

[Ondo]

Using the information we got from the Excerpts, Pregens and some speculation, I think this is a probable progression.

I'd guess you get a feat at 10th, 20th, and 30th in addition to all the others. I'd also include stat boosts, which we know are at 4th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and probably 18th, 21st, 24th, and 28th as well.

Here's a different look at the info, merging the equivalent levels of different tiers into a single line since they're normally the same:

Level	Power
 1/11/21  [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR] (also 2 [COLOR=Green]At-Will[/COLOR], [COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR], Daily at 1st; [COLOR=Red]Paragon Encounter[/COLOR] at 11th; [COLOR=Yellow]Stat Increase[/COLOR] at 11th and 21st)
 2/12/22  [COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR] (from Paragon Path at 12th), [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
 3/13/23  [COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
 4/14/24  [COLOR=Yellow]Stat Increase[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
 5/15/25  Daily
 6/16/26  [COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR] (from Epic Destiny at 26th), [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
 7/17/27  [COLOR=Red]Encounter[/COLOR]
 8/18/28  [COLOR=Yellow]Stat Increase[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR]
 9/19/29  Daily
10/20/30  [COLOR=Blue]Feat[/COLOR] (also [COLOR=Sienna]Utility[/COLOR] at 10th, Paragon Daily at 20th)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The Rouse was not understating that we haven't seen much of marketing yet...

Very interesting preview. I absolutely didn't expect seeing something on the "starting at higher level" stuff. Like it, though I agree with others that there seem to be some class-specific details missing.

Easy. You get your con score to your HP and nothing else. You get no special bonus to any of your saves. You have no special powers or abilities except those granted by your race and possibly feats.

Sounds as if you're missing any class related features, too. You really are a dirt farmer, and nothing else. (Not a Wizard Apprentice, nor a squire, nor a beginning acolyte)

I'd add one at-Will power as a per encounter power, and one encounter power as a daily power. (I suppose Wizards get to choose one out of two encounter powers each day, to retain the Vancian feel)

You get Healing Surges equal to your Con Bonus, +2 for Defender, +1 for Striker/Leader, +0 for Controller classes, with a minimum of 1.

Skills might be the hard part.

You get only half of the normal skills for your class? Or do you want a lower bonus? In that case, +2 instead of +5, equal number of trained skills.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

0th level character

they could buy skill and powers by study and apprentice and practice, until they can fully call themselves "1st level character"

0th level
no second wind to 0th level character
less healing surges
hp=cos
1 or 2 trained skills
1 trained weapon

0,3 level
add some class feature a smattering of hp and second wind
(I would go for one at-will)

0,6 level
add some other class feature more hp and more healing surges
one encounter power
another at will

1st level
you get your daily powers and all class features

 

[Ondo]

Also the +7HP vs. +9HP at character generation seems odd.

For what it's worth, it seems to be one and a half times the HP per level.

So you could also express the fighter's HP as (level + 1.5) * 6 + Constitution score, if you wanted to.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Just want to put a few things in perspective:

A 9th level rouge (keeping it Heroic incase something changes between tiers) with a 13 con will have 65 HP and (as per the Sneak Attack article) 7 healing surges (assuming you dont gain healing surges when you level). If 1 healing surge heals you 1/4 of your HP (rounded down to next integer) then the total HP for a level 9 rouge in one day is 177.

A 9th level rouge with a 14 con will have 66 HP, 8 healing surges, and 194 total HP for the day.

A level 9 rouge with a 15 con will have 67HP, 8 healing surges, and only 195 total HP for the day.

And finally a level 9 rouge with a 16 con will have 68 HP, 9 healing surges, and 221 HP for the day.

So while short changes in your con score will just barely effect your encounter HP, a change in your con modifier will have a big effect on your total possible HP for a day.