Time for Ceramic DM? (judge-free commentary thread NO JUDGES ALLOWED AS OF NOW :) )

[Macbeth]

But what is it with you and insanity? I sure hope writing is an outlet for your compulsions

I think this is just my "insanity" phase. It doesn't help that my Psychology class just did a few weeks on mental disorders, so all those DSM-IV references are correct.

I haven't got a chance to read your story yet, but I'm going to sit down with some food and read it in a few minutes.

 

[Macbeth]

First, about my story:

Yeah, the picture use is shakey. I tried to make them symbolic, so that they had meaning withtin the dream, but really, when you start doing dream stuff, it becomes way too easy to just say "and then this picture happened." I'm worried the judges are going to knock me for bad picture use.

Now, for your's.

I should give up now.

That was an excelent story, Bear and door, I really liked it. Most striking to me was the parallels between our stories. sialia's art was used as a recuring dream by both of us, and both of our stories have to do with guilt. Very interesting.

I really liked the feel, and the ending was moving. There were few, if any, grammar/spelling errors, and the story flowed well. I noticed that in the first round, the judges said your story was slow moving (I haven't read it myself), but this round moved at a nice speed, with some nice twists. I would have liked to see a little more build toward the end, just to make the ending more dramatic.

All in all, I think you have a great story. I think this round is going to be very VERY close.

 

[Berandor]

Berandor, what a beautiful story. It made me cry at the end. Of course I am eight months pregnant and prone to that....but still. It was well written, good picture use and a touching ending. Thanks.

I... err... I don't know what to say - except thank you. Honestly, I don't care any more how the judging will go, your comment has saved my day (or week, as it is). Wow!

BSF: Thanks, too. I am just glad to see that I am not alone in my satisfaction wth the story.

Macbeth: Thanks again. As I really, really disliked the spelling errors in my first story (and if you haven't read it yet: don't!), I tried to expunge them all this time. A more dramatic ending would have been nice.
Perhaps if I had used my idea that Jason used a bread transport to smuggle himself onto the island, then grabbed the girl and ran while armed soldiers pursue? In the end, they are saved by a pair of were-sharks who know how it feels to lose a daughter That would have been it, I think

Finally, I hope you know my "insanity comment" was just a friendly joke, right? Just to make sure... (in case you really are insane, follow my IP adress, and kill me before the year is done)

ETA: Honestly, when I read you'd named your story "guilt", I feared for a moment we'd somehow ended up with very similar stories. As it is, I think the stories are related, but not too similar to impede judgements. It's interesting that Sialia's pic was used in a similar vein, though of course the translucentness suggested a visionary use. Judgment should be interesting, indeed.

Oh, and as a final edit, I just want to say that the true idea behind the story is orchid blossom's. She wrote she'd wanted to do a story about love, and that kind of stuck with me when I saw the pics.
(Now I really hope it *was* orchidblossom and not someone else who wrote that )

 

[Macbeth]

Finally, I hope you know my "insanity comment" was just a friendly joke, right? Just to make sure... (in case you really are insane, follow my IP adress, and kill me before the year is done)

I was prety sure you were just joking.

Oh, and as a final edit, I just want to say that the true idea behind the story is orchid blossom's. She wrote she'd wanted to do a story about love, and that kind of stuck with me when I saw the pics.
(Now I really hope it *was* orchidblossom and not someone else who wrote that )

Actaully, that was me and BSF making that comment, and I very nearly id write a love story. It was the bricks that stopped me.

 

[Sialia]

Yah. What everybody else said. These stories were both incredible, and it's going to be a very tough call--matter of personal preference, or --I dunno--hair breadths' points for proofreading? You both did a pretty good job on that account too, but I'll bet I could nitpick one or two in each, if I had to make this call. I'm so glad I don't have to!
I do find it interesting that both of you found such guilt and betrayal in the woman and child.

This is part of a series of pictures that have come to me without telling me their stories. I know they're all part of a set, but I don't know what they're for. Seeing them through your eyes helps me get closer to undertanding them. I keep hoping at some point I'll know how to string them together. But the picture is certainly a lot more powerful to me now, because I don't think I ever looked at it from that angle before. From the POV of the man looking at them--now that you have both seen it, I know there is a third person in the picture, even if he's not in the picture. The viewer--it's not an anonymous third person omniscient anymore. He's involved.

As I think Eeralai might understand, I always saw the picture from standing inside it--the woman's or the child's point of view--I didn't know what they were looking at, only how they were feeling about it. I think you both captured that, but you added another element too, and echoed each other enough to convince me that it is worth drawing some more about this.

I feel well paid for my participation in this round by these two stories. Anything that makes me want to draw more is a gift.

 

[BSF]

Sialia,
That's very interesting. I liked the pic for Macbeth/Berandor, but I set it aside so I wouldn't burn too much creativity on it. I liked it though. I will mention your post to Eeralai and see if she wants to comment.

 

[Eeralai]

As I think Eeralai might understand, I always saw the picture from standing inside it--the woman's or the child's point of view--I didn't know what they were looking at, only how they were feeling about it.

Yes, I had not put it into words, but I do think I also view this picture from the inside out. To me the woman and child were not so much filled with a sense of betrayal, but more of a yearning sadness. I actually had a story idea for that round of pictures (which has not happened before) and it did involve the lover of the woman and father of the child not being able to be with them.

 

[Sialia]

Macbeth v Berandor

Whoof.


That was some harsh judging for two pretty fine stories.

I mean really, as far as I'm concerned, this was one of the best rounds. Both stories were compelling, emotionally charged, coherent, cleanly written, and, most important for me, about something.

I can only guess that as the level of writing has ascended, so have the judges' expectations, and they are grading you at this point to a standard ordinarily meant for professional authors, as opposed to folks who are writing just for fun in 72 hours or less on subject matter only barely of thier own choosing.

Don't let them make you want to give up on either of these stories. Both were fundamentally good.

And I disagree utterly about the discussion of mystery, and of backwards flow.

 

[Sialia]

First off, I object to the kind of critique that discourages authors from taking creative chances with structure or form. I like experiments--sometimes they work, and sometimes they don’t. But if no one experiments with structure, all stories start to sound formulaic and predictable, and the body of work suffers as a whole, even if it is made up of nice parts. I find the supposition that there are inherently invalid ways of telling a story to be arrogant and self-serving.



Second, I think it is ok for an author to have an adversarial relationship with the audience, as long as the author has some well-conceived and passionately-held relationship with the audience, and doesn’t try to insult our intelligence. It is ok to lie, to withhold information, and even to deliberately mislead the audience if you can get away with it, but it must be done well, so that the feeling at the end is “ah! ya got me,” as opposed to “well, how was I supposed to know that?” The more adversarial the relationship, the greater the need to ultimately satisfy--a hostile and estranged audience does not cut the author any slack, or forgive any logical fallacies. But that is a digression--Macbeth’s story does not attempt to do any of the above. The narrator is at war with himself, not with us. We are just watching him squirm as the author explodes his pain open for our pleasure. The slow unraveling of layers to his pain, the dawning comprehension as we assimilate it, that is part of the tantalizing delectation. [/syyalea]



Third, while we live through time facing forward, we often understand it retrospectively. Archivists, archaeologists, forensics specialists, psychologists . . . .all strive to understand now by examining evidence of things past. Many readers derive pleasure from untangling evidence, which is why mysteries are a popular and profitable market segment of mainstream literature. More importantly, after truly horrific moments, it is common for the human mind to review, rehearse, purge, and learn from the experience. I liked the backwards flow of trying to understand how this character got to be in the state he’s in. He can hardly allow himself to understand it, and he can’t let go of trying to understand it. The tension in the story is between his need to understand, and his desire to blot out the whole thing. He wants to know, and he doesn’t want to know. Structurally, I think the conceit of this works well, and the form expresses the function of the piece.

 

[carpedavid]

BSF - I just finished your story and thought it was delightful. I'm really becoming a fan of the "modern mythology" subgenre of speculative fiction, mostly because of stories like yours.

More comments later. For now, good job! Now we just have to see what the judges have to say