Time for Ceramic DM? (judge-free commentary thread NO JUDGES ALLOWED AS OF NOW :) )

[BSF]

Carpedavid,
Thank you for the kind words. I am still enmeshed in the broiling insecurity of the story. Did I tell anything interesting? Did I say too much, too little? Did I make too many assumptions? Aaarrrgh!

My wife enjoyed it. I had fun writing it. I could do more, probably better too, but what more do I need to do if I enjoyed it?

I had to keep resisting the urge to detail all the runes. I had to resist spelling everything out. It's a short story, not an accurate recitation of mythology nor an accounting of the runes and how to craft new age style magic. I know a bit about both subjects, but this was supposed to be a story. I think it is. If people enjoy it enough to remember Mimir, if they want to know what the ninth secret is, that's great. I don't need to tell them. They can find it themselves.

In the end, I decided I wanted to break the expectation of a horror genre story. I didn't know how I would be able to do it, until I stumbled across the idea of Mimir. A bunch of ideas were vying for attention and I just tried to sort them out and have them make sense. The man with the kite was my inspiration for Odin. But, it didn't feel right to use the pic for Odin. So, it became a necromancer and Odin was integrated.

I'm talking too much. I need to come down off that strange high you get writing a story and hoping somebody will enjoy it, while being afraid that nobody will. I am almost at a point where I can read your story. I started to this morning, but I just couldn't focus. It looks Lovecraftian, which should be great fun. I really enjoy Lovecraft. I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

[carpedavid]

I need to come down off that strange high you get writing a story and hoping somebody will enjoy it, while being afraid that nobody will.

I know exactly what you mean. I've been bouncing up and down in my chair all morning waiting for someone to say *something*. But then, I'm never been good at delayed gratification

 

[BSF]

Carpedavid,
Nifty story! I enjoyed it. You ended up with the nice little twist that makes for a juicy surprise. Thanks.

 

[Berandor]

Well, carpedavid, I'm home from work now, (even though I am still a little dizzy from my win, but that's probably to your advantage ) and I will comment on your story. BSF is next, don't fear

But first, I want to whole-heartedly agree with Sialia that the judgements were to harsh (j/k, I think it's better to be held to a high standard than being cut too much slack. Nevertheless, I'm glad Clay didn't go all-out, as well.)
But I really want to agree with you with regards to storytelling structure and so on. I think, when all is done, a story either works, or doesn't work. Perhaps some ways of telling a story are more promising, or easy (ha!), but in the end, even a story that follows every imaginable rule to the T can fail abysmally.
I think it is also a matter of taste. FOr example, I like the movie "the usual suspects", and I am willing to let it lead me by the nose, because it is well done. The same goes for "Memento", or Macbeth's story. I'm not really annoyed at all the mystery, I am enjoying being told in the speed of the story, because I can feel the story moving onworad to that point of resolution. When I enjoy the ideas in the story, the writing, the rhythm, and the twist, does simply telling it backwards make it a bad story? I don't think so.

But then, I don't want to have the judges' responsibility.

Another way to look at the judgements would also be that this round simply was very close, so they really threw themselves into finding small mistakes and chips in their armor, in order to find a winner?

Oh, well, I'd be glad if my pics next round wouldn't resemble Greywolf's this round, so I'd better should up and turn to

Carpedavid, a.k.a. he who swept off Piratecat:
First off, you really managed to keep in character of writing a letter. It is very difficult (for me, at least) to constantly keep that image up, writing in short remarks, and so on.
I liked that story a lot, but not as much as I would have wanted to. I wanted to love it that much that I'd never read another Ceramic DM story, ever, because I love the genre you were writing in, whilst being wholly incapable of delivering such a story myself. Still, it is a very, very good entry.
What I loved were the subtle setting comments, like referring to the new canal, or commenting on the recent find of Machu Pichu. A great way to set your story without boring exposition (as I had in my story).
What I found a little lacking was the final shocker. I loved the clones, the bad weather, the bird-men, but I felt that final hammer blow should really drive the nail into your skull, not merely flatten the head. I don't know, perhaps you could have the head be animated, laugh loudly/madly, makes the writer hold his ears in pain, etc.? I don't know, I was really expecting a climactic finish, whereas now it ended... not bad, mind you, but "merely" well. Still a disturbing image, to be sure.
The pics (it had to come):
It begins with the face. It's a great use, to be sure, but perhaps you should have waited with the link for the final sentence? That way, the reader would see it simultaneously with the final revelation? That could have also given the ending the final push over the edge for me; I don't know.
Next, we have the kite man. It's a nice tie-in with the mythical part of your story, a man flying a bird-kite to honor the alien benefactors. But it's not a great use, either.
Now we get to the imo most problematic use, topofthemorning. It's only problematic because I don't know whether the judges will let the modern/ancient city disparity slide; the skyscrapers fit because of the alien origin of the bird-men, but it's still a risk (a risk that Macbeth took with the meat-float, btw.). Also, the dangling man seems to me to be a little too high above ground for a willing descent. But I've got the tendency (I find) to use pics quite literally.
Now come the simulacra, and I really liked that part of the story, even without a pic
So they carry the burning hut over a river. I think this was a very cool use of the picture; even though it isn't that necessary for the story (but having five or more pics in a story that all depict necessary things in a story you constrcut around these pics, not ther other way round is, I think, at least extremely difficult). So I like it.
We end with "cold", and to be honest, I hadn't even noticed that damn dinosaur skeleton in the pic before you used it. What's that supposed to do there? And it's not really flying, or anything, it's as if the pics were simply mixed together. Anyway, a good use to me.
Finally, I just don't understand the author writing to his friend. I mean, it does make some sort of sense, in the end, but all the way through the story I asked myself, "why couldn't he have written to someone else?"
Humoring me, perhaps adding that Charles had asked for Arthur's report, because he couldn't remember anything, and Arthur beginning with "I'm sorry that I put off your request for so long, dear friend" or something like that. Perhaps not. I might be wrong (it happens)

Anyway, thanks for the story, and BSF, here I come!

 

[BSF]

Bring it on Berandor! Given where you live, I am interested to hear what you thought of the story.

 

[BSF]

I can only guess that as the level of writing has ascended, so have the judges' expectations, and they are grading you at this point to a standard ordinarily meant for professional authors, as opposed to folks who are writing just for fun in 72 hours or less on subject matter only barely of thier own choosing.

Eeralai and I were discussing this the other evening. She contends that Ceramic DM might be getting to the point of being intimidating for newcomers to try to jump in. As a counter argument, I think we have several newcomers in the first round. I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but Carpedavid, Fieari, Graywolf-ELM, RPGgirl, Yangnome, Noskov, and Rodrigo Istalindir are all new contestants. That is almost half the folks.

Overall, we do have some great stories coming up earlier in the competition. Macbeth and Berandor are 2nd round stories that could easily have been final round stories. Carpedavid and Piratecat were first round. It does seem like we have good stuff coming out and the judges are having an incerasingly difficult time passing a judgement on the stories. Certainly, I do not envy their position one whit. With better stories, perhaps it is harder to decide which story should go on to the next round. While I very much appreciate their feedback, because it helps me be a better writer, I do wonder if it helps create a little bit more of an intimdation factor for those folks who might want to try next time around, and feel they are not good enough.

It is a hard job to judge, and it is all volunteer work. So, I don't want to criticize the judges. Especially since the last two contests have started at 16 contestants with 4 rounds instead of 8 contestants with 3 rounds. Between improving stories, and a larger, longer contest, perhaps we are also fostering a judging environment where it is less fun for the judges? It might be a question worth asking, because this contest should be about good stories told around wacky pictures. But, it should also be about everyone having fun whether writing, reading or judging.

 

[Berandor]

What does living in an apartment have to do with it?

So, I read the story, and I have to say one thing up front against the readability of message board posts. Because you have to put a break between every paragraph, switchting to a different place/time between paragraphs doesn't work so well. Case in point:

Stone splinters shot in every direction and the shadow screeched before fading away in the sunlight.

The crew of the Skidbladnir was nice enough.

I really tend to read onward as if no line break had happened, and after reading the first one/two sentences, my mind cathced up to the fact that something isn't right

Anyway, to the story. I liked it, but I feel it could have been a lot better. You said you really felt the time pressure, and I think it shows. At the beginning, you sometimes fall back on telling instead of showing (like I can honestly reprimand you for it, yet still I do ):

...his pride would not let him get rid of his burden

His pride would demand nothing less than acceptance of this job.

Why not simply "he would not get rid of the burden and fail." or "This was the chance he'd been waiting for, the chance to show that he was the best, once and for all"?

Also, some things feel rushed, like the appearance of the dracolich:

It was moments later when something dark, and evil, swooped down out of the night. It was a skeletal dragon and Jack found himself thinking the name Fafnir.

"It was a skeletal dragon..." seems so matter-of-factly. I think you should either let the reader in on the mundanity of skeletal dragons for Jack Lopt, or you should heighten the tension a little more. As I said, I think this is the time constarint showing.

I liked the idea of the story, that the norse gods still walked among us; if they did, Loki would surely be like Jack Lopt Stealing Mimir was a cool idea for that pic, I mean I would be worried about my undead slaves playing soccer with the head, too. I really liked the mytholodical nudges, even though I am sure I didn't get them all (not being *that* familiar with norse mythology - but hey, I saw Valhalla).
What I also somewhat missed was the realization of Loki as to what/who he is. Hel greets him as "cousin", but it doesn't seem like he's confused/worried by it. The quick ending is fine, I think, especially in a competition like this one.
The pics:
We begin with the one I also thought was used before, even though it wasn't, the Survivors hanging on their whatever-it-is-called. It's interesting that both of you burnt the contraption and not had the fire signaling something, even though burning a phylactery and burning a wounded man is somewhat different. I like the picture use, but as with carpedavid, I think it could have been improved by using it at the end, when the reader knows what's in the float.
The skyscraper pic was well-used, though I would have liked for it to be drawn out a little more, winds tearing at Jack, the glass-cutter trembling in his fingers, etc. Of course, that's armchair directing, so I thought it was used alright. (btw, I had to preview my story three fricking times because damn word messed up the links. Until I'd found out what had happened, I was pulling my hair out.)
The face is, I think, your strongest pic. It is used very, very well, and of course it is central to the whole story. And finally, it talks! Btw, that pic is really, really strange! Is that Sialia's?
The kite. I liked it, especially since it tied in with the necromancer and the dracolich later on. First a little shadow, then a big scary lizard
I've already mentioned the dracolich above, and commented on the pic in carpedavid's turn. Is that pic from Sialia? Anyway, the dracolich is a very important part of your story, the final hurdle before Loki gets back "home" (as much as he regards it as his home, anyway), and so the pic is used efficiently. It's not as strong as the face, but that's a hard nut to crack, anyway

Overall, I liked your story, and I really like the idea, but I think with a few hours or even a few days more, this could have been much better even. Anyway, thanks for it, I enjoyed it despite all my previous criticism.

 

[Berandor]

I just wanted to comment on BSF's post above that this is my second try in Ceramic DM, and my third story so far, so I am kind of a newbie, too. (Just so you think I am entitled to add my 2c ) I'm not one to fear a challenge, however, as long as I can fret and whine about it before and afterwards With other people, it might be different.
The level of the stories is just a factor of ENWorld being as big as it is (and me being lucky this time ). It's the same (or similar) with Story Hours. There are so many people here that you automatically are going to get a lot of good, and quite a few excellent folks at whatever venue you shoose to look for. There are so many goot to exceptional story hours out here that I would hesitate before starting my own in spite of such a competition.
With Ceramic DM, it is a little different and still a lot alike. Newcomers are probably going to be at least hobby writers who want to compete against "big shots". On the other hand, the time limit can even that field a little. Another point is that this time, two of the three judges judge on fairly technical merits. While Clay seems to follow his gut feeling a little bit, the other judges want to present as objective a judgement as possible. I think discussing story layout in terms of guide books about writing might give of a too professional vibe for interested newcomers. On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoy the lengthy judgements given, as it really helps you understand your shorcomings better. But perhaos a little more gut and a little less theory might help? But how to achieve that with judges as knowledgable as they are? You can't make arwink or barsoomcore forget what they know about writing.

Perhaps it might be useful to shake up the format of the torunament? Say you take six newbies, eight veterans at the beginning. In round 1, you have the newbies compete against each other (so no facing off against an intimidating giant from the beginning, but the chance to get a feel for the game), end up with seven winners and one "best loser", and from then on randomize?

I don't know, it's just an idea. Perhaps a newbie might be considered anyone who hasn't written more than 1 (2?) stories for Ceramic DM?

 

[Sialia]

We end with "cold", and to be honest, I hadn't even noticed that damn dinosaur skeleton in the pic before you used it. What's that supposed to do there?

Sing "Somewhere Beyond the Sea"?

Just to clarify, the picture of the skeletion ship "Cold" is mine, but the picture of the face stuck to the wall was done by someone else.

I wish I could credit the artist who did the skeleton I used in my ship picture--he didn't sign his work, or surely I would have credited him for it. The actual object is made of metal, is about a foot and a half long, and sits in our living room. The boat was also an object from our living room bookshelves. I scanned each seperately, and, as Berandor said, stuck them together. I was going through a McKean phase, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. The waves, sleet and moonlight were all mine, though.

 

[Berandor]

Sing "Somewhere Beyond the Sea"?

Just to clarify, the picture of the skeletion ship "Cold" is mine, but the picture of the face stuck to the wall was done by someone else.

I wish I could credit the artist who did the skeleton I used in my ship picture--he didn't sign his work, or surely I would have credited him for it. The actual object is made of metal, is about a foot and a half long, and sits in our living room. The boat was also an object from our living room bookshelves. I scanned each seperately, and, as Berandor said, stuck them together. I was going through a McKean phase, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. The waves, sleet and moonlight were all mine, though.

Alright, that makes sense
Actually, now I really got that image of a giant T-Rex skeleton standing at the bow of a ship Titanic-like, singing.
"Somewhere beyond the sea
somewhere, waiting for me
Spielberg and dreamworks wait to dooo
film number three."



(So it's one of your pics, then? While I still think it's a confusing image for the contest because of the way these two elements intermingle, I like the pic itself. The ship is wonderful - though, as I read now, taken from a sculpture. Anyway, I think your pics are a great addition to the contest, as they are a lot more free to interpretation than many photos are).