D&D 5E TIME STOP SPELL (9º)

[AmerginLiath]

If any player in a game I was running tried to use Time Stop for cool Matrix- or Inception-style stunts of controlling the flow of time amidst set-piece battles or crashing airships and the like, I honestly would give a surprising amount of leeway on interaction with the environment. I blame growing up as a small child playing 1st-edition AD&D for thinking of "how can I use this spell for sense of wonder" and completely forgetting that I should hit anything...

 

[Rabbitbait]

It's a good start!

Let me rephrase my original point anyway...

- Time Stop is significantly nerfed in terms of what additional spells you can cast while everybody else is frozen.
- Time Stop still lasts only 2-5 rounds, i.e. max 30 seconds if you're lucky, but you won't know this until you cast the spell (so it might be you only have 12 seconds).

It is OK to make Time Stop in 5e much less usable for spells combos. But that means you have to find alternative uses to make it still as useful as a 9th-level spell should be. But if you're still restricted to such short time, there are much fewer alternative uses compared to having e.g. a couple of minutes. 12 seconds meaning 2 actions is really miserably short for almost any creative plan.

That's mainly my critique point: nerfing the main combat usage is ok, but they should have then thought of compensating it in another way, and IMO increasing the length significantly would have worked.

Oh my goodness. Your well reasoned argument has changed my mind on this matter. I agree with you now. While this spell potentially has usefulness in the right situation, it is more limited and for too short a time than it should be for a 9th level spell.

I think something unheard of on the internet has just happened.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, you have to keep in mind that there's a period of unlearning happening; many of the old classics have been nerfed or diminished by rules changes. Time Stop used to be one of the most powerful combat spells; as it should be, considering it's 9th level.

Revisiting this interesting topic, and using your quote to set a constructive tone...

Now that the game has been out a couple of years and people have learnt their way around the spellcaster restrictions, what would be some good spell combos for a Time Stop spell?

(What I mean is, back in 2014 we were all overwhelmed by how Concentration plus the way spells-take-effect instantly-but-end-the-Time-Stop if-they-do-anything-"external" stopped all the usual combos. But now I hope there are new combos to be explored)

I'm specifically interested in how a NPC archwizard would use Time Stop to try to mitigate being surprised by the players.

I know the buffing game of 3E is gone, but is there any good defenses worth putting up (with Time Stop)? Or is your best bet to get the hell out of Dodge? (And if so, should you Teleport away completely or should you move less than 1000 ft so you could set up an ambush of your own. If you teleport away completely, time stop ends, so why then not simply cast Teleport?)

 

[evilbob]

Holy thread necro.

I'm specifically interested in how a NPC archwizard would use Time Stop to try to mitigate being surprised by the players.

I know the buffing game of 3E is gone, but is there any good defenses worth putting up (with Time Stop)? Or is your best bet to get the hell out of Dodge? (And if so, should you Teleport away completely or should you move less than 1000 ft so you could set up an ambush of your own. If you teleport away completely, time stop ends, so why then not simply cast Teleport?)

I can't imagine it would be useful in any scenario.

The problem is that you are spending a round and a 9th level spell slot to gain 2 rounds, for a net gain of 1 round - during which you can't affect any creature or any item held by a creature other than yourself. You might have a net gain of 2 or 3 rounds, or even 4, but you can't be sure. Nearly anything you could do during Time Stop could also be accomplished by simply doing the thing (like your Teleport example above). If you really wanted to run away, just cast the 1st level Expeditious Retreat. If you really wanted to affect a trap (like some examples in this thread from 18 months ago) just use 5th level Telekinesis. It won't even work to stop and heal someone who is dying (another previous suggestion) because that affects a creature. The only uses I can even imagine are tailor-made scenarios specific to the use of this spell: like the ticking time bomb (that no one is holding, mind you) that you can disarm in two rounds but it will explode in one.

If there were other spells whose effects took more than one round to target something, and you needed to hold something in place so that it would be affected, that's one possible use: but all (nearly all) spells that do damage take effect immediately. Delayed Blast Fireball is still the best combo with this spell, and that's because you get an extra d6 per round waited (although you can only cast one DBF since it is a concentration spell). So you're wasting a 9th level spell to add anywhere from 0 to 4 extra d6 to a 7th level spell - which is a horrible idea, because you could just cast DBF as a 9th level spell in the first place and you'd be adding 2d6 to the spell for sure! (Not to mention adding 7 average damage to a spell is a terrible use of a 9th level slot in any case.)

And not to mention that Wish is probably a superior way to handle any preconceived situation that this spell would otherwise be able to handle.

If anyone can come up with a general use for this spell that couldn't already be handled by a different (probably lower level) spell (or Wish), or a better spell combo, I'd love to hear it.

 

[CapnZapp]

Holy thread necro.

Consider it a two year Time Stop [emoji2]

 

[Galendril]

So, I'm seriously considering increasing the time provided to an hour. Can anyone poke any holes in that?

 

[Charles Rampant]

Interesting topic. I recently threw an Archmage and some goons (Knight stats) at my level 9 players, and on round one of combat I looked up Time Stop and found myself really struggling to think of anything useful to do with it. The fact that I found Cone of Cold - 5th level! - to be a best cast says a lot. I mean, he already had a concentration spell up, so that basically left the only use of the spell being to run away... and Teleport seems like a better bet at that stage.

Very odd, for someone whose mental image of a D&D spellcaster is Jon Irenicus, time-stopping in the middle of the Athkatla market place to lay down the pain.

 

[Gadget]

I agree that the spell is weak as written for its level. I'm not sure if lengthening the duration to an hour would be a solution or not, though I agree lengthening the duration is probably necessary. Maybe allowing it bring up to four willing creatures besides yourself outside of time as well? That way you could heal up, coordinate strategy, etc. Or you could make the casting a reaction, as someone suggested up thread, to make it more of a defensive, let's catch our breath or get out of dodge spell.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I have a question about Time Stop magic.
A powerful magic level 9 like this where the magician to long for 1d4 + 1 rounds, but This spell ends if one of the actions you use During this period, or any effects That You create During this period, the creature Affects other than you or an object wellbeing worn or Carried by someone other than you.


The Wizard with this spell can not stop time and use some magic against the enemies? Or attack them? What this effect refers to the magic?



T im e St o p
9th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You briefly stop the flow o f time for everyone but
yourself. No time passes for other creatures, while you
take 1d4 + 1 turns in a row, during which you can use
actions and move as normal.
This spell ends if one o f the actions you use during
this period, or any effects that you create during this
period, affects a creature other than you or an object
being worn or carried by someone other than you. In
addition, the spell ends if you move to a place more than
1,000 feet from the location where you cast it.

Every time I think of something to do with 1d4+1 turns for the price of one, I run straight into the limitations of the spell: ends when you affect a creature other than you or an object being worn or carried by a creature other than you, or if you move more than 1000 feet.

1.) Oh, you could heal yourself! But, sorcerers and wizards can't self-heal.
2.) Oh, you could buff yourself! But most buffs take concentration, so you might as well just cast them directly.

The only ways I can think of two abuse it are:

1.) Use out of combat, to sneak past guards and steal the McGuffin while time is stopped. (How many McGuffins are protected by something as simple as guards?) Very situational.

2.) In combat, use a Sequence: Time Stop, Delayed Blast Fireball, Dimension Door, Mirror Image, Blink, (Quickened?) Animate Objects VIII. From the perspective of an outside observer, I cast one spell and suddenly I'm 650' away from where I started, a 16d6 DB Fireball goes off, I have three illusionary duplicates and maybe (50%) just went Ethereal, and 16 salad forks are suddenly flying around stabbing everyone in my new location. Oh, and I maybe hit you with a Twinned Booming Blade too because why not.

That's actually kind of impressive, but I just blew my 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell slots and a 2nd and 3rd slot slot (and maybe three sorcery points if I did the Booming Blade thing) plus six of my 15 spells known. Is it really all that much better than Quickened Animate Objects VIII? Moreover, is enabling that sequence really worthy of a 9th level spell?

So far the best combo I've got for a Sorlock 20 is Twinned Booming Blade + Quickened Timestop: (Delayed Blast Fireball (16d6), Armor of Agathys VI, Blink, Mirror Image, Animate Objects VIII + Quickened Greenflame Blade). 16d6 AoE (56), 16d8+mods (72+mods, probably about 82) distributed between two targets, a defensive boost to cut your damage taken by about 80% over the next few rounds and inflict 30 HP of cold damage on anyone who hits you, and 16d4+64 (104) in minion damage per turn hereafter. That is a grand total of 196 damage to two targets, plus 56 to everyone else in the DBFB blast radius and whatever your salad forks manage to inflict after this turn. Is that competitive with Action Surge: Meteor Swarm (140) + Animate Objects VIII (104 DPR)? I'm still on the fence about that but it's clearly an improvement, probably competitive, possibly better (but way more expensive too).

At any rate, that sequence is good enough to make me think it would be fun to unleash. Meteors from space is one thing, but "BBEG speaks a word and boom! suddenly you are being stabbed, frozen, exploded, and set on fire" is kind of a fun idea.

 

[evilbob]

1.) Use out of combat, to sneak past guards and steal the McGuffin while time is stopped. (How many McGuffins are protected by something as simple as guards?) Very situational.

2.) In combat, use a Sequence: Time Stop, Delayed Blast Fireball, Dimension Door, Mirror Image, Blink, (Quickened?) Animate Objects VIII.

1) Greater Invisibility + Pass Without Trace. Telekinesis. Dimension Door x 2. Every situation has an easier solution, except ones in which only Time Stop would work (which are simply contrived).

2.) Time Stop. DBF. Blink - oops, time's up. That's the thing: even buffing isn't really worth it because you don't know until you cast how long you'll actually have. Also, some stuff like Armor of Agathys should probably have been cast an hour ago. But I agree you've more or less come up with the only possible usage: surprise insurance. If a wizard was completely unbuffed and ambushed, this would allow them to get at least two buffs going for the price of one action and a 9th level spell slot. Although - Contingency. But it's expensive and only works on one 5th level or lower spell. But still: Contingency + Dimension Door is probably still a better use of your resources.

If we're talking about fixing Time Stop, I'd start by giving it a fixed duration. 5 rounds seems fine. That actually gives you something to work with, and something you can plan for. Making it also work as a reaction also doesn't seem overpowered (if you made it only work as a reaction, that would cement it as a purely defensive spell). That allows you one "don't get hit for free" power, which is really, really amazing, especially vs. some late-game save-or-die stuff. Imagine Time Stop as a sort of counter to something like Meteor Swarm - you simply got out of the way.

So, I'm seriously considering increasing the time provided to an hour. Can anyone poke any holes in that?

Delayed Blast Fireball. 12d6 + 10d6 = big badda boom. DBF has to go off within 1 minute and each 6 seconds adds another d6 to the damage, so any duration of Time Stop longer than one minute means you could cast it to its maximum effectiveness. It doesn't matter how long the Time Stop was supposed to go: the DBF would explode, ending your Time Stop, but then you've probably done all you wanted to do already.

On the other hand, nearly doubling the effectiveness of a single level 7 AoE damage spell DOES sound like the type of thing you'd want to use a 9th level spell slot for.