To Mike Mearls: Melee training and the Battlemind

[Obryn]

I would say that the best solution would be to give Battleminds an equivalent to Intelligent Blademaster. But given they are a defender with Con as their primary stat, they really don't need it. I actually like this change (despite seldom playing Str-primary characters and it's going to nerf my Monk).

I dunno. CON is such a common stat for Defenders - as opposed to INT - that it could open up some multiclass abuse.

-O

 

[Saeviomagy]

What I'd really, really like to see is a fix for

<cha based character>/warlord

Because as-is, only brawny characters can be inspiring leaders without using magic.

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see melee training expanded to work with all melee powers, which is pretty much what it would take I think.

 

[Terramotus]

The first unneeded nerf to a core 4E game feature to support the changes made to Essentials. More to come, I'm sure. Essentials should have been walled off, with no relation to core 4E.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The first unneeded nerf to a core 4E game feature to support the changes made to Essentials. More to come, I'm sure. Essentials should have been walled off, with no relation to core 4E.

The feat has had complaints since it's introduction, and has been used to prop up entire classes, getting labelled as required for them.

That doesn't scream "this is an unneeded nerf" to me.

 

[mearls]

Please consider errata granting the battlemind this simple ability. If for some reason WotC thinks this would be overpowered, please at least offer an option like the swordmage's intelligent blade master.

Thanks for listening.

p.s. While you are at it, have mercy on the poor constitution-secondary shaman as well....the armor situation is pretty dire.

When we talked about the change to Melee Training, we also talked about feats, powers, and other options for classes that like basic attacks but don't use Strengths. It's something that is on our to do list.

I'll make sure we look at the shaman AC issue while I'm at it and approach it from a similar angle.

 

[Mirtek]

What exactly is the point of giving everyone such a melee attack after reducing melee training' efficiency slightly?

So that everyone has a fully valid MBA but the essentials classes can't abuse it because they don't have at-will attacks and thus can't take it.

The only reason for the nerf are the essentials, but this goal can be reached without the old classes having to suffer.

The feat has had complaints since it's introduction,

Really? I actually can't really remember any complaints. There certainly were some, but so few that they were hard to notice.

and has been used to prop up entire classes, getting labelled as required for them.

Which shows that people, for whatever reason, enjoy having a valid MBA, even if it's only used once every third encounter. So since people like this feat to increase their fun that needs to be nerfed?

Also almost every weapon based class takes weapon focus at some point. It should better be nerfed. And toughness is also taken way too often, better half it too.

 

[ppaladin123]

When we talked about the change to Melee Training, we also talked about feats, powers, and other options for classes that like basic attacks but don't use Strengths. It's something that is on our to do list.

I'll make sure we look at the shaman AC issue while I'm at it and approach it from a similar angle.

Thank you for your answer! That is great news.

 

[Vagebond]

When we talked about the change to Melee Training, we also talked about feats, powers, and other options for classes that like basic attacks but don't use Strengths. It's something that is on our to do list.

Yes, this avid avenger player can stop nerdraging and start having daydreams about an at-will usable as a MBA again!!! Just in time too, because such anger goes against my good natured character and I really dislike not using capitals, punctuation or spelling correction.

 

[Dice4Hire]

<begin rant> I also have a slight difficulty with the fact that a character trained with a weapon can currently be completely incompetent with their attacks at the end of a charge, opportunity attacks, granted attacks, etc. If I know where the pointy end goes on this spear thingie, I should be able to make a competent basic attack with it. <end rant>

Well, if you had not dumped your str.....

I know that is not the whole answer, but the desire to dump as many stats as possible and pump one stats to godlike levels is at the heart of this whole "problem"

I just do not see the problem about things like these that can be fixed with a simple feat. "Feat Tax" or whatnot.

 

[igniz13]

I was also about to mention Intelligent Blademaster. To me, a class-specific feat is a better implementation of the exception-driven design pattern.

I do wonder if we'll see these kinds of feats for other classes or if IB will nerfed itself. I do think Melee training was too centric to many power builds that this change makes sense irrespective of the release of Essentials.

AFAIK, IB is a very different case to Melee Training though.

Assault Swordmages depend on their ability to make basic attacks as part of their punishment mechanics. No class absolutely demands you invest fully into two primary attack stats, though some builds do need this to work.

Assault Swordmage does.

This is different to every other Defender. All of them rely on a primary stat for punishment.

You don't need OA's to function as a Defender although they often important. Assualt Swordmages needed IB to function on par with other Defenders.