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D&D 5E To much 5th edition content?


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You are right, they do. But it seems minor in comparison to race and class. Feats seem to make a much larger impact. Oh god! I forgot about feats! Okay, now the combinations are way too many! :D
 


Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
You are right, they do. But it seems minor in comparison to race and class. Feats seem to make a much larger impact. Oh god! I forgot about feats! Okay, now the combinations are way too many! :D

Right, but everybody plays exactly the same class and build every time, don't ya know?

At least that's the complaint from people that always want more options. Of course if there were more then one set of builds would become "best" and be the one that always got played. Which means we need more options, and so on and so forth.
 

jerryrice4949

Adventurer
Thank you. So over 100 archetypes and 60 races. That's a lot of combinations. ;)
I am not sure if the wink means you are being sarcastic, but nearly 20% of the subclasses (including the whole mystic class) are not official material. i don’t think UA material counts since it has not been included in any product and is just a play test.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
I am not sure if the wink means you are being sarcastic, but nearly 20% of the subclasses (including the whole mystic class) are not official material. i don’t think UA material counts since it has not been included in any product and is just a play test.

You still have hundreds of possible combinations before backgrounds and feats. They won't all be optimal - but that will always be true. Any time you have multiple combinations, one will always be best by some measure.
 

Right, but everybody plays exactly the same class and build every time, don't ya know?

At least that's the complaint from people that always want more options. Of course if there were more then one set of builds would become "best" and be the one that always got played. Which means we need more options, and so on and so forth.
I feel a lot of players that want more options often really want something better or stronger than the option they have. That, or... they have an esoteric idea of an archetype or class that doesn't fit into a category. The paladin that gains power by drinking because his god is aligned with brews and wines or the warlock whose pact is with Primus or something.
 

dave2008

Legend
I am not sure if the wink means you are being sarcastic, but nearly 20% of the subclasses (including the whole mystic class) are not official material. i don’t think UA material counts since it has not been included in any product and is just a play test.
Of the ones list there are 90 that are published in an official capacity in a book, not UA), and that may or may not include everything from Eberron, Acq. Inc., Wildemount, and Theros as I made the list before those came out (i've been try to update it, but haven't going through all of those books yet). That is a lot of combinations when you include just backgrounds and races. Then you can layering on factions (several books), dragonmarks (eberron), supernatural gifts (theros), etc.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
I'm getting to where the OP is. However, I'd like to see a shaman type character (using totems, spirits, etc), but I doubt that will happen any time soon because it risks claims of cultural appropriation. A tough class to craft, for sure.
 

jerryrice4949

Adventurer
Of the ones list there are 90 that are published in an official capacity in a book, not UA), and that may or may not include everything from Eberron, Acq. Inc., Wildemount, and Theros as I made the list before those came out (i've been try to update it, but haven't going through all of those books yet). That is a lot of combinations when you include just backgrounds and races. Then you can layering on factions (several books), dragonmarks (eberron), supernatural gifts (theros), etc.
I agree that from a purely mathematical perspective you are correct. There are many combinations. Though not practically speaking for most people. How many people are ever going to play a Aarocka, Kenku or Goliath. Not many. Some but few. Same can be said for any subclasses in AI for that matter. Some groups don’t use backgrounds or allow feats either.

i think most people asking for more sub classes are really asking for more customization. Just my two cents.
 
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pogre

Legend
If WOTC wants to please me they will crank out more adventures with high level 4th tier material. It's easy to write adventures for 1-10 - give me a crutch for the higher level stuff.

If WOTC wants to make money they will crank out books with lots of player options.
 

dave2008

Legend
I agree that from a purely mathematical perspective you are correct. There are many combinations. Though not practically speaking for most people. How many people are ever going to play a Aarocka, Kenku or Goliath. Not many. Some but few. Same can be said for any subclasses in AI for that matter. Some groups don’t use backgrounds or allow feats either.
Well, as I stated in the OP there is more than enough content for me and my group. We are on the same characters since we started 5re almost 6 years ago.
i think most people asking for more sub classes are really asking for more customization. Just my two cents.
Possibly. If that is what they want the can get a lot of customization through feats (PHB & XGtE), and the UA feats (skill & weapon) and Variant Features, Hopefully some of those make it an "official" publication, but I allow my players to use them now.
 
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Ash Mantle

Adventurer
Personally I've found 5e to be hitting the sweet spot of material and the timeliness of that material, what's been rewarding is that the breadth of material released serves quite well as a base to use in our own games; there's an unspoken freedom to simply filing off the numbers off of subclasses and selectively using AP material and making it truly our own.
All this material does make DMs of us all, but a few more player options would be excellent as!
 
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jerryrice4949

Adventurer
Well, as I stated in the OP there is more than enough content for me and my group. We are on the same characters since we started 5re almost 6 years ago.
Possibly. If that is what they want the can get a lot of customization through feats (PHB & XGtE), and the UA feats (skill & weapon) and Variant Features, Hopefully some of those make it an "official" publication, but I allow my players to use them now.

Your perspective totally make sense now. If you have the same characters six years later I imagine that it would seem there is a glut of player options available.

I am curious what level your party is, how often you play and whether you use experience or milestones to level up.
 


dave2008

Legend
I am curious what level your party is, how often you play and whether you use experience or milestones to level up.
We play about 1/month for 4-6hrs, sometimes more often (probably get 14-16 sessions in a year). I would guess we have logged about 400+ hours in our current campaign. We are on the cusp of 16th level, but haven't play since the covid-19 lockdown. I guess we use a version of milestone. I just level up everyone when I feel it is appropriate for what they have accomplished.
 


Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
We play about 1/month for 4-6hrs, sometimes more often (probably get 14-16 sessions in a year). I would guess we have logged about 400+ hours in our current campaign. We are on the cusp of 16th level, but haven't play since the covid-19 lockdown. I guess we use a version of milestone. I just level up everyone when I feel it is appropriate for what they have accomplished.

I wish I could find a group that would be okay with that pace of leveling. As a DM and player I enjoy all levels, but it kind of starts to feel a bit like a treadmill when we level too fast.

I'm okay with it, just remember my old school games fondly when leveling was a big deal and you could be facing the same threat levels for several sessions.
 

dave2008

Legend
I wish I could find a group that would be okay with that pace of leveling. As a DM and player I enjoy all levels, but it kind of starts to feel a bit like a treadmill when we level too fast.

I'm okay with it, just remember my old school games fondly when leveling was a big deal and you could be facing the same threat levels for several sessions.
We are pretty slow paced. I generally require downtime for leveling so in game I think the characters have been adventuring for 10+ yrs to reach their current level
 

Thirteenspades

Great Wyrm
I know how you feel. While I really appreciate 5e's slower release schedule, I would actually prefer it if it was even slower, like maybe one or two books a year like it was at the start. And also, as a DM, I'm feeling like the player-facing content is getting spread too thin, with a subclass here and a race over there. It's hard to keep track of it all, both in terms of letting my players know what's available and also having to remember where they got a particular thing from. I guess that's why AL has its PHB +1 rule.

That said, I'm not yet at the point where I don't want to keep buying what they put out. I've got everything except the Theros book, which I'm still waiting on due to the pandemic delays. That's not to say I've read everything, though.
Yeah, I think WOTC should slow down and work on making less content with better quality. Better art, better stats, more lore. Instead of releasing general books that appeal moderately to everybody, focus on a particular group for each book. Something that each group would love. And completely holding fast to the theme they decide on, rather than spreading it out thin like too little butter on a slice of bread.
 

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