D&D 5E To much 5th edition content?

[DND_Reborn]

Barely and people are talking about edition bloat.

You seem to be missing the point that myself (and I expect others) are making. We aren't saying 5E is bloated now, but it is getting a little on the heavy side, leaning nicely into bloat.

And no one is denying 2E and probably 3E (I only played it one year) had bloat. The "Guides" to everything in 2E were ridiculous with bloat alone!

Two years ago we were begging on these forums to see more content and they’ve actually barely scratched the surface of content.

And most of the content people have been screaming for they haven't given us... which makes the material they do put out even more disappointing IMO.

Basically when we get to 200+ feats and 100+ subclasses from WOTC call me on the rules bloat.

I don't think they'll make the mistakes with feats again (no feat chains), but the subclasses are already over half-way to your goal. That is, it is getting bloated.

 

[teitan]

You seem to be missing the point that myself (and I expect others) are making. We aren't saying 5E is bloated now, but it is getting a little on the heavy side, leaning nicely into bloat.

And no one is denying 2E and probably 3E (I only played it one year) had bloat. The "Guides" to everything in 2E were ridiculous with bloat alone!


And most of the content people have been screaming for they haven't given us... which makes the material they do put out even more disappointing IMO.


I don't think they'll make the mistakes with feats again (no feat chains), but the subclasses are already over half-way to your goal. That is, it is getting bloated.

I think you are missing my point... this isn't bloat. At all. There isn't much content to 5e, even in comparison to 1e or even Basic. With only 2 rules updates and those being slim volumes and 3 monster books, also slim, there isn't a lot of rules to get bloaty with. Getting there on Rules Bloat would be when people come in with 4-6 books for a single character because of a single thing out of each book. The closest thing to rules bloat is the constant revision and changes resulting in the necessity to reprint material but again, is it a necessity or is it merely a preview for the revised edition? It's artificial and unnecessary and I am not saying that in the grognard sense of "I like it that way" and "all drow are evil" but in the sense of they roll out these changes and then a couple months later roll them back in like Alignment being removed and then returned. Wait, I am sorry, put on time out. Then they talk about things that sound cool like the new approach to Drow and... where are the in game materials for that? Shouldn't all these half steps be tested in house or in UA and then implemented with the revision instead of implemented haphazardly? It implies a game with... 5 slim supplements is getting "bloaty". looks at Pathfinder2e, Starfinder, Warhammer, Vampire, EVERY OTHER RPG Bloaty. The changes are even small, minor tweaks that can easily be ignored because for the core game they are optional, not core. The core game being... the big 3 books with Tasha's & Xanathar's as rules expansions. Even Mordy and Volo's aren't "core", they're monster books. So... minor rules tweaks, the equivalent of four books since the two expansions are slim... you got?

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think you are missing my point... this isn't bloat.

For the last time, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS BLOAT!!! I AM SAY IT IS HEADING (QUICKLY) IN THAT DIRECTION! Are you even reading my posts?

Since I am not the only one saying or thinking this...

You got?

 

[Malmuria]

Yup. I think there is a fear of corruption/contagion - add storygame elements to an OSR game, now you have a storygame. And Classic purists often see OSR as a corrupting influence too. Storygamers are often hostile to Trad play too, of course, but without the Purity/Corruption thing.

Most OC gamers are just desperate to play, so I don't often see them being dismissive of other styles!

There's definitely a split within the OSR now between people who just want to play retroclones or 1e and the "NSR" (New School Revolution) that is more about experimenting with creating new games and weird settings. Part of the difference is aesthetic, though a lot of it is "political" in a broad sense. Anyway, that latter group is much more open to learning from "storygames"

 

[Malmuria]

Wotc has sort of outsourced a lot of the bloat to the DMs guild and, somewhat inadvertently, to 3rd party creators.

 

[Maxperson]

Basically when we get to 200+ feats and 100+ subclasses from WOTC call me on the rules bloat.

I'd love to just get to 100 feats.

 

[Maxperson]

You seem to be missing the point that myself (and I expect others) are making. We aren't saying 5E is bloated now, but it is getting a little on the heavy side, leaning nicely into bloat.

The vast majority of it is settings, monsters and adventures, though. There's not much new in the way of magic items and feats.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The vast majority of it is settings, monsters and adventures, though.

Sure, and that was true in prior editions as well.

But if you want new material, and the stuff WotC provides is not of interest or use to you, it just feel like crap (e.g. bloat).

There's not much new in the way of magic items and feats.

Personally, I am not keen on the idea of 100 feats, but more would be nice, especially well-designed ones that didn't just mimic other features (looking at you Tasha's). Those type of feats are pretty useful IMO.

Also, I would like more rules and less rulings, but I know that is bucking the trend so I'll just deal.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, and that was true in prior editions as well.

Bloat generally refers to the PC crunch, not the settings, adventures and monster books. It was the magic items, spells, classes/subclasses and feats.

But if you want new material, and the stuff WotC provides is not of interest or use to you, it just feel like crap (e.g. bloat).

I don't equate those two. Settings(other than FR and Dark Sun) and campaign adventures are useless to me, but they don't make the game feel bloated at all.

Personally, I am not keen on the idea of 100 feats, but more would be nice, especially well-designed ones that didn't just mimic other features (looking at you Tasha's). Those type of feats are pretty useful IMO.

I don't even mind ones that mimic other features. I like the idea that feats are another way to "multiclass" a bit.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Bloat generally refers to the PC crunch, not the settings, adventures and monster books. It was the magic items, spells, classes/subclasses and feats.

I don't equate those two. Settings(other than FR and Dark Sun) and campaign adventures are useless to me, but they don't make the game feel bloated at all.

I don't even mind ones that mimic other features. I like the idea that feats are another way to "multiclass" a bit.

To each, their own.