D&D 3E/3.5 ToB: Bo9S - Nifft's Compendium

[Nifft]

New Martial Crusader! It's a prestige class replacement for Paladins and Blackguards, combining Cleric and Crusader with some Smite action.

Also, Psionic fixes as discussed above. I think the Swift action is a significant enough penalty (on top of Psionic Focus expenditure) that the benefit should be near what Divine Wrath grants (which costs a free action plus a Turn Undead attempt).

As always, gimmie feedback!

Thanks, -- N

 

[saucercrab]

(My apologies for not responding until now. Real world was intruding on free time.)

Salamander Charge is a good counter-example. Let me explain my reasoning for the stance, though.

Okay.

Basically, I want there to be a cost associated. Not a cost in terms of expended resources -- that's the spellcaster way of thinking, where you have a limit on resources. I want a pure opportunity cost that applies exactly when you are gaining the benefit.

A Boost could do it, but not if it could last for multiple rounds, because you'd then be able to get your buddy ("buff up"), recover your maneuvers, and then start a fight. I don't want there ever to be a time when you use the feature and didn't pay for it that same round in some way.

I figured that a Stance would do the trick -- it's a concrete opportunity cost, and it's got a duration. If your shadow died, then getting your buddy back would be the same price as a Boost (Swift action), so you're still encouraged to keep it "alive".

The other thing is that I want the "flavor" of the core shadowdancer's ability, which has three roles: strong scout, moderate flanker, weak attacker. Getting a 5-round shadow companion limits its scouting ability... makes it annoying for me as a DM to adjudicate. But stances can last all day, and when you're scouting with your shadow, you're not also flying, spider climbing, etc.

I understand your reasoning, I just don't agree.

Ironically, the condition ("falling") only affects the character because the stance ends.

True, but my point was/is that one way that the Summon Shadow stance can end (dead shadow-buddy), has no precedent in official stances. Every other stance ends because of something that happens to the character personally.

I disagree. You can gain the benefit of a shadow companion for every round in which it exists. If you only pay for it in round 1 but it lasts until round X, then you just got X-1 rounds of benefit for free. (Which is fine for spellcasters, but IMHO not for martial adepts. ESPECIALLY not if you can summon more than one.)

To compare with Salamander Charge: the Wall of Fire is fixed in location and effect. Once you set it, it's "passive". People can walk around it (or just away from it). The shadow companion is an "active" effect. It can move to follow foes, it can adjust to flank, you can give it various orders.

Please let me know if the "opportunity cost" thing is making sense. It's not the way I'm used to thinking about balance, but it feels right when working on Martial Adepts (and Warlocks).

I quite understand your reasoning for having it work your way. My disagreement lies in how I see maneuvers & stances working; Summon Shadow is more a maneuver to me than a stance. A difference in design method that will have to just be. :shrugs:

Yes. You know when your stance ends, and can infer a reason -- maybe it died, maybe it just moved out of range.

Would the character know the difference between the two (death or range)?

Check out page 38. I don't need to specify where you can ready maneuvers from -- you always choose your readied maneuvers from all maneuvers that you know.

Basically, I can't limit these "slots" to specific schools.

The official PrCs have maneuvers & stances separated in their write-ups. In each, it's spelled out that new learned maneuvers/stances are limited to certain schools; additional readied manuevers, while in the new maneuvers section, are a new paragraph, & don't note any limitations.

Your writeups have additional readied maneuvers sandwiched in between the two in one section, with one qualifier at the beginning of the section; to me, that implies that the qualifier will apply to the whole section. I just wanted to make sure that you & the book meant the same thing.


BTW, like the new (from the last time I checked in) PrC's, especially, especially, the diamond psion. Psionics is such a better fit for melding with martial adepts (compared to other systems, even spellcasting) that the fact that the book has no PrC for them is a strike against it in my book.

 

[Nifft]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the Summon Shadow thing. Oh well, can't be perfect I guess.

Would the character know the difference between the two (death or range)?

Nope, it can only "communicate intelligibly", not telepathically.

The official PrCs have maneuvers & stances separated in their write-ups. In each, it's spelled out that new learned maneuvers/stances are limited to certain schools; additional readied manuevers, while in the new maneuvers section, are a new paragraph, & don't note any limitations.

True; I've cleaned up the language (of my one paragraph) so it explicitly states that you learn maneuvers and stances from specific schools. No limit is placed on anything except learning, so the placement of new "ready-slots" in the middle shouldn't introduce any ambiguity.

BTW, like the new (from the last time I checked in) PrC's, especially, especially, the diamond psion. Psionics is such a better fit for melding with martial adepts (compared to other systems, even spellcasting) that the fact that the book has no PrC for them is a strike against it in my book.

Yeah, I know! Mental excellence + metal powers = mental awesome, and they just don't have any of that! It's nice that they have a couple of Psionic feats, and of course Psionic Focus + Diamond Mind is a gorgeous combination... (Automatic "take 15" on a Concentration check?! Yes please!)

And the mechanics are such a good match, too: [Psionic] feats that require your Focus are already very maneuver-like, and the complementary behavior of maneuvers vs. powers ("all-day" vs. "nova") makes for a very nice range of tactical options.

- - -

I've added three new PrCs:

Black Flame Zealot -- Agent of darkness who blurs the line between fire and ice (variant Assassin).

Desert Storm -- Swift warrior whose hit-and-run attacks shock and burn his opponents (variant mobile Duelist).

Ninja of the Crescent Moon -- For hong, a skill-monkey with a counter-magic twist.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

New school summary! Check out Heaven's Arc, a school based on ranged combat, which we need for Elf Crusaders and Martial Rangers.

Write-ups soon, and maybe even a Ranger class.

Gimmie feedback!
Thanks, -- N

 

[Crashy75]

Wow, you've really covered all bases here.

Martial Champion

Prereqs:
Devoted Bulwark
BAB +4
Special: Ability to cast 1st level Divine spells as a Cleric
Special: Ability to Smite (class ability, domain ability, or Avenging Strike feat)
Special: One of the following Domains: Chaos, Fire, Law, Good, Healing, or Evil; or the feats Mounted Combat and Wild Cohort
Special: One Devoted Spirit maneuver and one Devoted Spirit stance

The Cavalier is behind the others with this scheme especially if he isn't human. Domains come free with the cleric level (granting two feat equivalent requirements for free for all but healing domain). At a minimum of 3 feats required a non-human would have to dip into the fighter to enter the class by 5th and heaven help him if he doesn't have a smite equivalent domain. A Blackguard, Incandescent, Inquisitor, Lightbringer and Stormbringer can easily enter by 5th level using less resources (feats) allowing them to take things like scribe scroll and/or power attack. Even the human is behind in this regard. I would like to see requirements that put an equal strain on everybody with a sympathetic eye towards the non-humans. I think getting rid of the smite requirement would be a good thing. That way there isn't a discrepancy with the domains and it allows a little more leeway with domain choices. You could change the smite class feature with ‘smite opposition’ like the (forget the name) incarnium class. I wouldn't mind seeing devoted bulwark replaced with zealous surge. That way you aleviate the feat issue and at least 3 of your levels are crusader.

Benefits:
HD: d10
BAB: Full (as Fighter)
Good saves: Fortitude, Will
Skills: 2 + Int -- Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility & royalty, religion) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and see below.

Should have ride imo. If you decide not to add ride to the champion then you should probably at least give ride to the Cavalier.

        Maneuvers[u]
Level   K / R / S   Spellcasting: Special Abilities:[/u]
1       1   -   -   --            Devotion, Turn or Rebuke Undead
2       -   -   -   +1 Cleric     Inspired Stance +1
3       1   1   -   --            Smite +1/day
4       -   -   1   +1 Cleric     Devotion Ability 1
5       1   -   -   --            Inspired Stance +2
6       -   1   -   +1 Cleric     Smite +1/day
7       1   -   -   --            Devotion Ability 2
8       -   -   1   +1 Cleric     Inspired Stance +3
9       1   1   -   --            Smite +1/day
10      1   -   -   +1 Cleric     Devotion Ability 3

Maneuvers: The martial champion learns maneuvers and stances from the Devoted Spirit school (and see below). At each odd level (and 10th), he learns a new maneuver. At every third level, he can ready an additional maneuver. At fourth and eighth levels he learns a new stance.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): Your Champion levels stack with any other class that grants Turn Undead. If you couldn't previously Turn or Rebuke undead, you can now, just like a Cleric of the appropriate alignment.

Inspired Stance (Su): When you enter a Devoted Spirit stance, you can expend a Turn or Rebuke attempt to grant your allies (and perhaps yourself) an additional bonus. If you Turn undead, you grant your living allies within 30 ft. (including yourself if applicable) the indicated bonus to attack rolls against the undead. If you instead Rebuke undead, you grant your undead allies within 30 ft. (including yourself if applicable) the indicated bonus to attack rolls against the living.

This all looks good. No comments at this time.

Devotion: Choose one Devotion for which you are qualified. You gain access to another school from which you may learn maneuvers and stances (in addition to Devoted Spirit), you may add another skill to your class skill-list, and your Devotion Abilities depend on this choice.

Your choices are:

• Blackguard: requires Evil domain; grants Jade Viper school.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Poison Use (Ex), Sneak Attack +1d6
  - Devotion Ability 2: Sneak Attack +2d6
  - Devotion Ability 3: Sneak Attack +3d6
  
• Cavalier: requires Wild Cohort and Mounted Combat feats; grants White Raven school and Handle Animal skill.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Share Spells (Su) with your Wild Cohort so long as you are within 5 ft. of each other.
  - Devotion Ability 2: Bonus feat -- any from this page, or that requires Mounted Combat as a prerequisite. you must qualify for the feat you choose (duh).
  - Devotion Ability 3: Bonus feat -- (as above)
• Hospitalier: requires Healing domain; grants Sanguine Lotus and Heal skill.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Immunity to Disease (Ex)
  - Devotion Ability 2: Expend Turn Undead attempt to remove disease (Sp), caster level = HD.
  - Devotion Ability 3: Immunity to Poison (Ex)
• Incandescent: requires Fire domain; grants Desert Wind school and Tumble skill.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Skirmish +1d6 fire (Su)
  - Devotion Ability 2: Skirmish +1d6 fire, +1 AC
  - Devotion Ability 3: Skirmish +2d6 fire, +1 AC
• Inquisitor: requires Law domain; grants Crescent Moon school.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Read Aura (Sp) at will, as detect chaos, evil, good, law, magic or undead, caster level = HD.
  - Devotion Ability 2: Skill Mastery (Sense Motive) (Ex)
  - Devotion Ability 3: Slippery Mind (Ex)
• Lightbringer: requires Good domain; grants White Raven school and Heal skill.
  - Devotion Ability 1: Immunity to Fear (Ex)
  - Devotion Ability 2: Aura of Courage (Su) as a Paladin
  - Devotion Ability 3: Reaving Smite (Su) -- when you successfully Smite a foe, you dispel effects on them as though you had cast greater dispel magic (caster level = HD).
• Stormbringer: requires Chaos domain; grants Tiger Claw school and Bluff skill.
  - Devotion Ability 1: +10 ft. movement (Ex)
  - Devotion Ability 2: You deal +1d6 electrical damage on a critical hit with any metal melee weapon, natural attack, or unarmed strike (Su)
  - Devotion Ability 3: +4 Divine bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits (Ex)

Looks good so far to my sleep deprived mind. I would only add that the blackguard can lie in infernal. That would be

[bq]Sidebar: Adding Martial Champions

This class can replace the Paladin and Blackguard classes. There are several different Paladin-related archtypes; none are identical to the Core Paladin, but they should allow all Paladin-related character concepts to be realized.

Recommended changes if you use this class:

• Alignment Domains (Good, Chaos, etc.): These grant Smite Opposite Alignment 1/day as their granted ability instead of increasing the Cleric's caster level.
• Add unique Paladin or Blackguard spells (basically bless weapon or corrupt weapon) to the character's Clerical spell list when he joins this class.
• Remove Paladins as a Core class; use multi-classed Cleric / Crusader and this prestige class instead.

[/bq]

Despite my above comments I like the suggestions here.

 

[Nifft]

I would like to see requirements that put an equal strain on everybody with a sympathetic eye towards the non-humans. I think getting rid of the smite requirement would be a good thing. That way there isn't a discrepancy with the domains and it allows a little more leeway with domain choices.

Good point. I was thinking that the Crusader's Smite class feature would work for this, but he doesn't get it until 6th level... which is rather late, considering he still needs one level of Cleric to get in.

So, Smite is now just a benefit, not a requirement.

The BAB prereq will prevent early entry -- since Clerics lose one point at 1st level, you'll have to be 5th before you qualify, either Cleric 4 / Crusader 1 or Crusader 4 / Cleric 1 (IMHO the latter is stronger).

Should have ride imo. If you decide not to add ride to the champion then you should probably at least give ride to the Cavalier.

D'oh! Oversight. Thanks.

Fixed in new paste... any second now.

Thanks, -- N

 

[periscope69]

there is a martial ranger variant on the wizards message boards that you might want to use. Look in the Martial Compendium for a link.

Awesome new schools, especially the sanguine lotus (reminds me orichahamaru's right hand man, the one with grey hair).

Question, why does the sanguine lotus only get two weapons for the favored ones? I would think the dagger (scalpel nurse) would fit in perfectly.

Have you ever considered legacy weapons for them? Id vote Katar for the Jade Viper school (sorry Im a diablo II fan :grins sheepishly and shuffles foot.

 

[Nifft]

Awesome new schools, especially the sanguine lotus (reminds me orichahamaru's right hand man, the one with grey hair).

Thanks! I did totally rip off Kabuto and Tsunade for a lot of the maneuver ideas. He is really the main inspiration behind the yin/yang duality thing, since he's the guy we mostly see using these powers to fight.

Question, why does the sanguine lotus only get two weapons for the favored ones? I would think the dagger (scalpel nurse) would fit in perfectly.

Daggers are already very popular, and IMHO pretty effective. This school isn't about direct attacks anyway -- most offensive maneuvers are disabling rather than damaging. So, IMHO the weapon choices should suck. Blade Meditation is already giving you a lot of goodies, what with all the saving throws, and all the uses for Heal.

Have you ever considered legacy weapons for them? Id vote Katar for the Jade Viper school (sorry Im a diablo II fan :grins sheepishly and shuffles foot.

Not really a fan of Legacy Weapons... I just can't get over the mechanics: "I got this awesome sword from my father, and it reduces my attack roll!!!" -- but maybe I'll get around to installing Diablo II this weekend and take a look. I love a good excuse for "research".

Thanks, -- N

 

[periscope69]

Oh we changed the penalties a Legacy weapon gave you in our games. You still get trained on HP (sort of paying with your life force) but the penalties to attack and saves we only have apply if you try to wield it without going through the rituals (seemed to make more sense to us).

Question:

I didnt actually see any techniques in Sanguine Lotus to actually heal (restoring hit point damage). Did I miss one or was this intentional? I could see them getting a techniques similar to vampiric touch or one that let them restore them if they get a high roll on their heal check (check divided by 5 or 10 maybe)? Or fast healing?

 

[Nifft]

Oh we changed the penalties a Legacy weapon gave you in our games.

Ah, right. That might not suck so much. But still not interested.

I didnt actually see any techniques in Sanguine Lotus to actually heal (restoring hit point damage). Did I miss one or was this intentional? I could see them getting a techniques similar to vampiric touch or one that let them restore them if they get a high roll on their heal check (check divided by 5 or 10 maybe)? Or fast healing?

Totally intentional.

Hit point healing is already covered by Devoted Spirit, although there is a Sanguine Lotus stance that gives you fast healing. SL is focused on conditions instead of damage, which is the other half of a Cleric's job.

Together with the appropriate [Tactical] feat, you can remove & negate conditions on allies as well, so a Crusader / Hospitalier would have a wide array of curative options.

Cheers, -- N