Too powerful? What am I missing... (please help)

[moritheil]

I definitely agree that Wilders are better at blasting than sorcs but worse at utility (though sorcerers can blast longer than wilders, if not as "hot"). I'm not so sure that it was a utility argument rather than a general weaker/stronger argument, however. My position is that wilders are overall weaker than sorcerers, due to versatility alone. That said, nothing is going to be accomplished here (other than crapping all over the OP's thread, for which I apologize). KarinsDad will never be convinced that psionics is not over-powered, and I will never be convinced that it is. *shrug*

It seems we agree on where the balance issues lie, at least. Though it should be noted that this is looking at the balance from the PC perspective. An NPC wilder had better show some restraint, or he'll do a lot more damage than an NPC mage in the same amount of time. I am convinced that this is where many legends of psionic brokenness stem from - DMs who think nothing of expending 100% of NPC resources in a few rounds because the NPCs are going to be dead shortly after. (If the NPCs would be willing to do it, fine. But usually that's not the case; a wilder is going to know how vulnerable he or she is when low on pp.)

 

[Enforcer]

I guess that depends on whether the NPC Wilder is a throw-away or not. Just a random opponent? Maybe he'll go "nova" but I can't imagine that any rational creature would leave himself so exposed. I believe Complete Psionic (again, working from memory--we all know I confused the Energy Missile errata for Energy Ray) mentioned the idea that NPC psions should be given half their normal power point pool. Personally I think that's bunk--if a psion/wilder is played intelligently they're not going to waste all their resources in one go and risk death later, unless their ultimate driving goal in life is "kill this particular group of adventurers."

A recurring NPC villain? Almost certainly not--any villain worth his chops knows that PCs are decidedly unforgiving and lethal. Besides which, if that NPC villain has minions he'd be exposing himself to a power play: "Hey, archpsion Evilguy is drained (though he did scare/kill off those pesky adventurers)! Now's my chance to ascend to leadership of the Evil Club!" (saith the smartly chosen Leadership psion cohort 'cause the villain ain't dumb enough to take Schism).

 

[glass]

Does not matter much, but 25 + 5/2 is 35 feet at maximum for the wilder right? 4/2=2, 2x5=10, 25+10=35.

I make it 30. Or is the wild surge doing something that I am missing?


glass.

 

[Slaved]

Wilder against party versus wizard against party with the question being who can cause the party the most havoc?

I like it! After that, wilder in party versus wizard in party and who helps the most.

I think that it is a good point though that dungeon masters should treat their non-player characters as actual thinking creatures, assuming that they can think at least. Imagine a level 10 guy, he has been through a lot to get where he is. Most likely he even feels that he is the main character in his own personal story. Of course, he is not, the player characters are. But he certainly does not know that and he probably wants to live to see tomorrow. Emergency plans according to his abilities and whatever else. Hopefully we are a little beyond first edition and the wandering monster charts that make no sense and the rooms with giants that must have been sitting there while the dungeon was built around them since they are too big to fit through the hallways.

 

[Slaved]

I make it 30. Or is the wild surge doing something that I am missing?


glass.

Wild surge actually increases the manifester level of the wilder for the power that is being surged. So with a base manifester level of 3, +2 from surge, gives a total of 5 for that power.

Does that make the numbers work out?

 

[Nail]

FWIW, I agree with nearly all your points, but disagree with this. As I posted earlier, divine metamagic/DSP builds can go nova.

....

I *think* the term "go nova" means: "Use up most/all of your resources as quickly as possible, usually to devestating effect."

Even a divine metamagic Cleric build can only go through his spells so fast.....

 

[Slaved]

I *think* the term "go nova" means: "Use up most/all of your resources as quickly as possible, usually to devestating effect."

I know that I asked something like this earlier but I might as well ask again. How is the wilder/psion doing this so much more effectively than someone like the wizard?

 

[Enforcer]

I know that I asked something like this earlier but I might as well ask again. How is the wilder/psion doing this so much more effectively than someone like the wizard?

Because they're a telepath/other-psion-or-wilder-who-burned-a-feat-on-Expanded-Knowledge with Schism! Oh wait, that's right, Schism is still a crap power that wastes your first round and then burns your pp even faster than normal by using your weakest powers.

Maybe after round 4 or 5 the psion is doing better than the arcane guy (psion can still use their best powers), but round 4 or 5 is hardly in nova territory.

 

[werk]

I know that I asked something like this earlier but I might as well ask again. How is the wilder/psion doing this so much more effectively than someone like the wizard?

It because the ability of psionicists to 'pump up' their powers by spending more power points...adding damage dice and raising save DCs. It works really well when your DM overlooks the 'max pp/round=manifester level' rule.

 

[Slaved]

It because the ability of psionicists to 'pump up' their spells by spending more power points...adding damage dice and raising save DCs. It works really well when your DM overlooks the 'max pp/round=manifester level' rule.

I certainly hope that the arguement does not come down to wilders and psions being better at novaing because the player can cheat.