I don't want to rain on this game's parade in my own (+) thread - but I struggle to get past The Goodies' take on Watership Down. . . . "Bellamy!"
Torchbearer 2e - actual play of this AWESOME system! (+)
- Thread starter pemerton
- Start date
Is it a sad thing that I have my Torchbearer write-ups of Thurgon and Aramina good to go? Though Thurgon feels a bit vulnerable with only a shield and not a heavy metal carapace.
A bit more seriously: while the above is true, I'm not sure that Thurgon would fully work in TB. I can't tell how the expedience that the Grind imposes would affect him, but I feel there might be a bit of a push towards two-dimensionality.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
@Everyone:
The unpleasantness upthread leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because I really don't like unnecessary conflict. (Necessary conflict, on the other hand....)
One thing I was thinking...and please get through this next paragraph to the subsequent one...is that I wish the other poster had simply said, "You mis-read my intent; I wasn't saying that at all." The diatribe that resulted instead really pushed my buttons.
Which made me realize that they were, quite naturally, reacting just as negatively to what I had said. Which also could have been phrased much differently. Instead of jumping to a negative conclusion and flinging an accusation, what I should have said was something more like, "That feels like a dismissal of my preferred style of roleplaying, as if it is 'just wargaming' and not real roleplaying. Was that your intent, or did I mis-read you?" Which is what I should have done from the beginning.
So, apologies to all.
The unpleasantness upthread leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because I really don't like unnecessary conflict. (Necessary conflict, on the other hand....)
One thing I was thinking...and please get through this next paragraph to the subsequent one...is that I wish the other poster had simply said, "You mis-read my intent; I wasn't saying that at all." The diatribe that resulted instead really pushed my buttons.
Which made me realize that they were, quite naturally, reacting just as negatively to what I had said. Which also could have been phrased much differently. Instead of jumping to a negative conclusion and flinging an accusation, what I should have said was something more like, "That feels like a dismissal of my preferred style of roleplaying, as if it is 'just wargaming' and not real roleplaying. Was that your intent, or did I mis-read you?" Which is what I should have done from the beginning.
So, apologies to all.
Manbearcat
Legend
Apology accepted.
No worries friend.
This was on the tail end of multiple episodes of various forum stuff in a row (or in a short span) so I was more primed for a vigorous defense than I would have been otherwise. So sorry for pushing your buttons with the forecefulness of my response.
Anyway. Be well! Glad to have that done.
We played again today. We had a third player, and hence a third character - Korvin the human Skald.
The Events
Fea-bella's player provided a very thorough prologue, and hence recovered from being Afraid. As per the rules for players who miss a session (or, in this case, two of them) I asked Korvin's player how Korvin had ended up in the tavern in the Wizard's Tower township. Apparently, when the mutant moles swarmed in the Tower of Stars, Korvin fell down a crevasse and got washed out by a creek, before finding his way back to the settlement. Golin's player, who had memories of the unstable ground and crevasses around the Tower, found this plausible.
Korvin's player is not familiar with the rules, and so I suggested that Korvin's Instinct to Never tell the truth might give him a free Tale Telling roll at the tavern, provided he was spinning a tall story. So Korvin told all the locals about his terrible fall, and his amazing climb to safety. We agreed that Fea-bella, feeling very sorry for herself, was in the tavern too and so able to aid the tale with her Hills-wise. And so Korvin succeeded, and then rolled on the successful tale-telling table with a +1 for being a skald. The result was that a local became his friend - I decided that meant the barkeep, Jan, who congratulated him on his ability to spin a wild yarn, and offered him free kip and beer whenever he visits. And also some food for when he sets out. Korvin's player said this reminded him of a mum packing lunch for her kid before they go off to the park - a remark that would soon come back to haunt him!
Golin's friend Vaccin the alchemist, and Fea-bella's mentor Jobe, each told their respective protege that they could get them a good deal on a helpful potion, to cure exhaustion in Golin's case (Ob 3 resources) and sickness in Fea-bella's caes (Ob 4 resources). This required selling the stirges. Vaccin put Golin touch with his colleague Derren, an alchemist and taxidermist known for extracting valuable components and reagents from creatures like stirges. I looked up my animal list, with obstacles for purchase, and then cross-referenced with the re-selling list, and decided that Derren offered 1D of cash per stirge. Golin, who had brought Korvin with him, wanted 2D per stirge. So they initiated a negotiation conflict.
I used the alchemist stats in the Scholar's Guide for Derren - no Haggling, but Will 6 giving 3 dice beginner's luck. And a good roll established an 8 disposition. Neither PC had Haggling, and Derren had -1D for being injured, and their starting disposition was 3. Which made things look grim, but through some lucky scripting and lucky rolling, the players pulled over a victory with compromise: when I offered 3D for both stirges they gladly accepted it!
With cash in hand, it was time to buy potions. Golin's player succeeded on his roll, and so stepped his Resource 1 up to Resources 2. Fea-bella's failed, and so while her coin soaked her tax she remained at Resources 0.
Fea-bella then tried to heal both their injured conditions. To me it was obvious that Golin's was Ob 2 - he had been injured by blood-draining stirges, which is clearly in the "bumps and bruises" zone. I suggested that Fea-bella's was Ob 3 - a twisted ankle falling into a cave, analogous to "sword cuts and broken bones" - but the player protested that nothing was broken, and so I relented. It turned out not to matter as both rolls failed against Ob 2: in Golin's case, I therefore reduced his Nature from 5 to 4, which elicited some frustrated groaning. There was no relish on my part; unlike my rather evident relish in reducing Fea-bella's Health from 3 to 2. She has a long-lasting limp!
Somewhere around this time I realised that I'd forgotten to roll for Korvin's rumour from hanging out at the tavern, and so did so - a traveller wandered in with tales of robbery - namely, his own at the hands of some bandits who included two human men and a red-headed Halfling woman and a Dwarven woman. (I had written up stats for these NPCs in preparation, as bandits/thugs in Megloss's employ, under the heading "possible assailants". This seemed a good time to introduce them into the story.)
The final business in town was Golin heading out to buy some provisions. His first attempt to buy fresh rations, with Resources 2 against Ob 1, failed (snake's eyes!) and so I taxed him back down to 1. Then he rolled for a second lot, 1D against Ob 1, and failed again. So I inflicted hungry and thirsty from looking at all that food, and so he ate one of his rations straight away to alleviate that. He now had 3 portions of food left. He also tried to buy new explosives. This check failed too, and I called it as a twist: the fireworks blew up! Golin's player succeeded at the Ob 4 Health test to avoid further consequences.
It was then time to leave town. As per the parents rules, I told Fea-bella's player that her mum gifted her a pair of shoes. And as well as tests for lifestlye, goals were written.
Golin had his Resources 1 and 1D of coin left, which he spent. His obstacle was 1 (he'd stayed for free with Vaccin but had undertaken personal business in selling the stirges). He failed, and so taxed his coin and still didn't get his Resources back to 2. His goal was to get some shoes from the bandits.
Fea-bella had Ob 2 (from her two healing tests) and had 1D of coin left and +1D from being in her hometown. She also failed her test. And was still exhausted. Her goal was to get some valuables from the bandits.
Korvin had no money, and while I decided that Jan wasn't charging him for his drinks, he had the Ob 1 minimum tollgate. Golin decided to help, to give 1D against Ob 1. (On reflection, I think this is against the rules. Oh well, almost certainly not the only technical error of the session.) The test failed. I didn't want to tax Golin, and couldn't tax Korvin, and so decided on a twist - as I put it to the group, harking back to Korvin's player's remark about Mum packing him some lunch, "the bullies took all your lunch money, and your two portions of preserved rations". Korvin's player laughed. Golin's player groaned, as they once again headed out into the wilds badly under-provisioned. The failure also meant that Korvin didn't get to be fresh. Looking at the somewhat sorry state of his companions, his goal was to maintain his condition (ie health) in the wilds. Probably a borderline valid goal, but Golin's player approved - he thought it fit Korvin's character.
It was then time to roll for weather - spring, with a +1 for being late in the season. The result was a storm, for +2 toll. The roll for Trouble on the Road was Waylaid!, for +1 toll. So net toll was 1 for the travel, +3 for those results, equalled 4 for Korvin, 5 for Fea-bella (who was the guide) and 6 for Golin (as the cook). Golin's cooking roll succeeded, so they got to feed everyone with one portion of rations, reducing one toll each. Golin spent his other two portions of food, plus water, to pay down some more of his toll. His raiment - galoshes - came in handy to meet another point of toll (and the player was rather pleased by this). For the last two, he spent his salt block (cooking supplies) and his maul (his rationale, which I accepted because I'm a nice GM) being that he was ditching the weight.
Fea-bella had 4 toll to pay down: her cloak (raiment) absorbed one; once again her shoes wore out; she spent her perfume (her rationale being that it was so hard to stay well-dressed in the storm); and took the last as hungry and thirsty, which she recovered from by drinking her elven wine.
Korvin had 3 toll still after being fed by Golin: his cloak (raiment) absorbed one; he also wore out his shoes; and I think took the last point as hungry and thirsty and then found a last waterskin to drink from.
The players took it as given that their Waylaid! result was the bandits they were looking for, and I ran with that: I told them that the bandits had been harassing them from the cover of the rocky overhangs as they (the PCs) trudged through the storm, and now as the storm cleared the bandits confronted them directly, telling them that Megloss had decreed that they should turn back. Fea-bella announced herself; and the NPCs announced themselves (taking a page from the book of Dungeon/Apocalypse World, I'm trying to make sure everyone has a name): Turner the leader, who explained that he was acting at Megloss's behest and who - as I mentioned - had pretty ordinary armour but was wearing nice boots; Roy his offsider; Nutmeg, the red-headed Halfling; and Tiny the Dwarf. (I'd chosen the names while doing prep yesterday - I can't remember where Turner came from, but the other three were named after cats I've known. I'd also determined, via a loot roll, that Turner had nice boots.)
Golin's player was getting ready to Charge!, but there was some further discussion, and I explained the options for social conflicts (Convince, Convince Crowd, Negotiate, Trick or Riddle). They decided to go for trickery, to leverage Fea-bella's Will 5 and Loremaster 4, and Korvin's Manipulator 4. They settled on a plan: to trick Tiny into thinking that Megloss was going to betray her, as a particular instance of the general history of Elves betraying Dwarves. Disposition started at 7 each. But I was outscripted, and the players run with a mid-ranging compromise. Tiny left the bandits to join with them; they turned back as Turner directed them to.
Following on from the theme of their trickery, Korvin's player suggested that Tiny must be a mocking name given to the Dwarf by her human and Elven bosses. I couldn't find any name lists in the Torchbearer books, but looked up Dungeon World and decided that her real name is Gerda.
I rolled the post-storm weather; it was Clear and Cool, and then the Trouble on the Road roll was a 6, meaning Warm and Bright. Fea-bella's player was pleased with this, as Golin had picked up a check which could be passed to Fea-bella, allowing a recovery check against exhaustion with +2 for the weather. But it was not to be.
The toll was base zero (1 for the distance, -1 for the weather), but with +1 for Fea-bella's Pathfinding. So they needed food to pay that down. So Korvin hunted a deer (succeeding on a 3D Hunter vs Nature 3 test) and then successfully butchered it using Beginner's Luck: the 6 portions were enough to pay down toll plus hungry and thirsty from hitting 4 turns on the grind. Unfortunately, Fea-bella was already hungry and thirsty (from failing a Pathfinder test) and hence when the grind ticked over went to exhausted; except she was already exhausted, and so went to angry. Which meant when she spent her check upon arriving at town, it was to recover from angry (which is an Ob 2 Will check, and she has Will 5) rather than exhaustion (which is Ob 3 Health, and therefore really needed the +2 from the weather!).
I rolled for the town event and got the following:
I told the players while the PCs were travelling and dickering with bandits, Derren had died from an unexpected stirge poisoning. This produced some laughter. Golin had the idea of pretending to drink wine, but actually storying it in waterskin. I said that would be a Criminal check, and he didn't want to try that. But Korvin was up for it, and succeeded at a the check with his Criminal 3. Golin and Fea-bella both decided to drink, and that was when I then read out the bit about them gaining hungry and thirsty and waking up hung over. Which was funny - doubly so in Fea-bella's case given she'd just recovered from angry. The players groaned.
I also told them what Gerda said to Golin - that Turner was the one who had told Megloss about the Tower of Stars, having himself learned about it from Scaramander, a bandit who was preparing to loot the Tower but who had subsequently been killed. Golin told her that he (and the other PCs) were the ones who killed Scaramander and friends. Gerda also said that Turner's gang had been the ones to capture Glothfindel, but that he wasn't at the Tower - he was in Megloss's house in town. Golin asked about the quality of Megloss's house, and seemed a bit disappointed to be told that it's a bit of a dive.
Upon entering town, Fea-bella and Golin also levelled, having spent the requisite fate and persona. Fea-bella chose to gain a Dream Palace, so she can learn and cast a First Circle spell. Golin opted for Shrewd, meaning that he can Haggle during the town phase without lifestyle cost, and can ignore Precedence requirements when haggling.
We finished the session there, and allocated rewards. Golin had pursued his Belief (by trying to buy explosives), and his Goal (by trying to get Turner's nice boots), and was voted workhorse for being the one who did the provisioning: two fate, one persona. Fea-bella had pursued her goal (by trying to valuables from bandits) and was voted MVP for her work tricking the bandits: one of each. Korvin had pursued his Belief (about following the clues to defeat the evil) and his instinct had helped (because he got the rumour about the bandits), and he'd achieved his goal: two fate and one persona.
Golin's player also made a note of what his goal will be for next time: to try and get Gerda a job filling the vacancy caused by Derren's recent death.
Reflection
In preparation for this session I'd prepared the bandits, but also a 2-page outline of Megloss's house. That ended up not being used, but seems like it might get used next time.
At one point I mentioned to Golin's player that this game is incredibly incongruous: the colour is superb - at that point we'd had the haggling over the stirges, and the rumour in the tavern, and the storm, and tricking the bandits - but the play itself is so brutal. He described it as the least heroic RPG he'd ever played. I suggested that The Dying Earth is not very heroic either; he thought there was no comparison.
Part of what contributed to the colour in this session was the narration in the social conflicts. I insisted that the players describe what their PCs were saying, and how they were helping, to fit their scripting: and so we got things like Golin saying to Derren (a Feint in the negotiation conflict, in response to Derren's remark that they were both friends of Vaccin) - "But I'm his better friend" (Derren's response, on his Defence action: "There's no need to be mean about it"); Korvin explaining to Derren how valuable stirges are, especially as there will be none left given the rate at which the PCs are extirpating them; and in the recruitment of Gerda a litany of accounts of and variations on how Elves do over Dwarves using Humans as their tools, with Golin throwing in help from is Dwarven Chronicle-wise.
I agree with my player that this system is not heroic. As I mentioned to a friend recently, it can lean towards the Hobbit (adventurous, sometimes grim, comedy) or the Silmarillion (a relentlessly tragic world), but has not an ounce of LotR in it. At session's end, the players were poorer than at the start, although with fewer conditions. But still with no shoes (not even Korvin), and Golin now without his maul. Golin's Nature dropped from 5 to 4, and Fea-bella's Health from 3 to 2. The PCs did collect some tests, and we saw some levelling.
The fact that Golin's player has a plan for his goal for next session makes me optimistic that there will be one, though!
The Events
Fea-bella's player provided a very thorough prologue, and hence recovered from being Afraid. As per the rules for players who miss a session (or, in this case, two of them) I asked Korvin's player how Korvin had ended up in the tavern in the Wizard's Tower township. Apparently, when the mutant moles swarmed in the Tower of Stars, Korvin fell down a crevasse and got washed out by a creek, before finding his way back to the settlement. Golin's player, who had memories of the unstable ground and crevasses around the Tower, found this plausible.
Korvin's player is not familiar with the rules, and so I suggested that Korvin's Instinct to Never tell the truth might give him a free Tale Telling roll at the tavern, provided he was spinning a tall story. So Korvin told all the locals about his terrible fall, and his amazing climb to safety. We agreed that Fea-bella, feeling very sorry for herself, was in the tavern too and so able to aid the tale with her Hills-wise. And so Korvin succeeded, and then rolled on the successful tale-telling table with a +1 for being a skald. The result was that a local became his friend - I decided that meant the barkeep, Jan, who congratulated him on his ability to spin a wild yarn, and offered him free kip and beer whenever he visits. And also some food for when he sets out. Korvin's player said this reminded him of a mum packing lunch for her kid before they go off to the park - a remark that would soon come back to haunt him!
Golin's friend Vaccin the alchemist, and Fea-bella's mentor Jobe, each told their respective protege that they could get them a good deal on a helpful potion, to cure exhaustion in Golin's case (Ob 3 resources) and sickness in Fea-bella's caes (Ob 4 resources). This required selling the stirges. Vaccin put Golin touch with his colleague Derren, an alchemist and taxidermist known for extracting valuable components and reagents from creatures like stirges. I looked up my animal list, with obstacles for purchase, and then cross-referenced with the re-selling list, and decided that Derren offered 1D of cash per stirge. Golin, who had brought Korvin with him, wanted 2D per stirge. So they initiated a negotiation conflict.
I used the alchemist stats in the Scholar's Guide for Derren - no Haggling, but Will 6 giving 3 dice beginner's luck. And a good roll established an 8 disposition. Neither PC had Haggling, and Derren had -1D for being injured, and their starting disposition was 3. Which made things look grim, but through some lucky scripting and lucky rolling, the players pulled over a victory with compromise: when I offered 3D for both stirges they gladly accepted it!
With cash in hand, it was time to buy potions. Golin's player succeeded on his roll, and so stepped his Resource 1 up to Resources 2. Fea-bella's failed, and so while her coin soaked her tax she remained at Resources 0.
Fea-bella then tried to heal both their injured conditions. To me it was obvious that Golin's was Ob 2 - he had been injured by blood-draining stirges, which is clearly in the "bumps and bruises" zone. I suggested that Fea-bella's was Ob 3 - a twisted ankle falling into a cave, analogous to "sword cuts and broken bones" - but the player protested that nothing was broken, and so I relented. It turned out not to matter as both rolls failed against Ob 2: in Golin's case, I therefore reduced his Nature from 5 to 4, which elicited some frustrated groaning. There was no relish on my part; unlike my rather evident relish in reducing Fea-bella's Health from 3 to 2. She has a long-lasting limp!
Somewhere around this time I realised that I'd forgotten to roll for Korvin's rumour from hanging out at the tavern, and so did so - a traveller wandered in with tales of robbery - namely, his own at the hands of some bandits who included two human men and a red-headed Halfling woman and a Dwarven woman. (I had written up stats for these NPCs in preparation, as bandits/thugs in Megloss's employ, under the heading "possible assailants". This seemed a good time to introduce them into the story.)
The final business in town was Golin heading out to buy some provisions. His first attempt to buy fresh rations, with Resources 2 against Ob 1, failed (snake's eyes!) and so I taxed him back down to 1. Then he rolled for a second lot, 1D against Ob 1, and failed again. So I inflicted hungry and thirsty from looking at all that food, and so he ate one of his rations straight away to alleviate that. He now had 3 portions of food left. He also tried to buy new explosives. This check failed too, and I called it as a twist: the fireworks blew up! Golin's player succeeded at the Ob 4 Health test to avoid further consequences.
It was then time to leave town. As per the parents rules, I told Fea-bella's player that her mum gifted her a pair of shoes. And as well as tests for lifestlye, goals were written.
Golin had his Resources 1 and 1D of coin left, which he spent. His obstacle was 1 (he'd stayed for free with Vaccin but had undertaken personal business in selling the stirges). He failed, and so taxed his coin and still didn't get his Resources back to 2. His goal was to get some shoes from the bandits.
Fea-bella had Ob 2 (from her two healing tests) and had 1D of coin left and +1D from being in her hometown. She also failed her test. And was still exhausted. Her goal was to get some valuables from the bandits.
Korvin had no money, and while I decided that Jan wasn't charging him for his drinks, he had the Ob 1 minimum tollgate. Golin decided to help, to give 1D against Ob 1. (On reflection, I think this is against the rules. Oh well, almost certainly not the only technical error of the session.) The test failed. I didn't want to tax Golin, and couldn't tax Korvin, and so decided on a twist - as I put it to the group, harking back to Korvin's player's remark about Mum packing him some lunch, "the bullies took all your lunch money, and your two portions of preserved rations". Korvin's player laughed. Golin's player groaned, as they once again headed out into the wilds badly under-provisioned. The failure also meant that Korvin didn't get to be fresh. Looking at the somewhat sorry state of his companions, his goal was to maintain his condition (ie health) in the wilds. Probably a borderline valid goal, but Golin's player approved - he thought it fit Korvin's character.
It was then time to roll for weather - spring, with a +1 for being late in the season. The result was a storm, for +2 toll. The roll for Trouble on the Road was Waylaid!, for +1 toll. So net toll was 1 for the travel, +3 for those results, equalled 4 for Korvin, 5 for Fea-bella (who was the guide) and 6 for Golin (as the cook). Golin's cooking roll succeeded, so they got to feed everyone with one portion of rations, reducing one toll each. Golin spent his other two portions of food, plus water, to pay down some more of his toll. His raiment - galoshes - came in handy to meet another point of toll (and the player was rather pleased by this). For the last two, he spent his salt block (cooking supplies) and his maul (his rationale, which I accepted because I'm a nice GM) being that he was ditching the weight.
Fea-bella had 4 toll to pay down: her cloak (raiment) absorbed one; once again her shoes wore out; she spent her perfume (her rationale being that it was so hard to stay well-dressed in the storm); and took the last as hungry and thirsty, which she recovered from by drinking her elven wine.
Korvin had 3 toll still after being fed by Golin: his cloak (raiment) absorbed one; he also wore out his shoes; and I think took the last point as hungry and thirsty and then found a last waterskin to drink from.
The players took it as given that their Waylaid! result was the bandits they were looking for, and I ran with that: I told them that the bandits had been harassing them from the cover of the rocky overhangs as they (the PCs) trudged through the storm, and now as the storm cleared the bandits confronted them directly, telling them that Megloss had decreed that they should turn back. Fea-bella announced herself; and the NPCs announced themselves (taking a page from the book of Dungeon/Apocalypse World, I'm trying to make sure everyone has a name): Turner the leader, who explained that he was acting at Megloss's behest and who - as I mentioned - had pretty ordinary armour but was wearing nice boots; Roy his offsider; Nutmeg, the red-headed Halfling; and Tiny the Dwarf. (I'd chosen the names while doing prep yesterday - I can't remember where Turner came from, but the other three were named after cats I've known. I'd also determined, via a loot roll, that Turner had nice boots.)
Golin's player was getting ready to Charge!, but there was some further discussion, and I explained the options for social conflicts (Convince, Convince Crowd, Negotiate, Trick or Riddle). They decided to go for trickery, to leverage Fea-bella's Will 5 and Loremaster 4, and Korvin's Manipulator 4. They settled on a plan: to trick Tiny into thinking that Megloss was going to betray her, as a particular instance of the general history of Elves betraying Dwarves. Disposition started at 7 each. But I was outscripted, and the players run with a mid-ranging compromise. Tiny left the bandits to join with them; they turned back as Turner directed them to.
Following on from the theme of their trickery, Korvin's player suggested that Tiny must be a mocking name given to the Dwarf by her human and Elven bosses. I couldn't find any name lists in the Torchbearer books, but looked up Dungeon World and decided that her real name is Gerda.
I rolled the post-storm weather; it was Clear and Cool, and then the Trouble on the Road roll was a 6, meaning Warm and Bright. Fea-bella's player was pleased with this, as Golin had picked up a check which could be passed to Fea-bella, allowing a recovery check against exhaustion with +2 for the weather. But it was not to be.
The toll was base zero (1 for the distance, -1 for the weather), but with +1 for Fea-bella's Pathfinding. So they needed food to pay that down. So Korvin hunted a deer (succeeding on a 3D Hunter vs Nature 3 test) and then successfully butchered it using Beginner's Luck: the 6 portions were enough to pay down toll plus hungry and thirsty from hitting 4 turns on the grind. Unfortunately, Fea-bella was already hungry and thirsty (from failing a Pathfinder test) and hence when the grind ticked over went to exhausted; except she was already exhausted, and so went to angry. Which meant when she spent her check upon arriving at town, it was to recover from angry (which is an Ob 2 Will check, and she has Will 5) rather than exhaustion (which is Ob 3 Health, and therefore really needed the +2 from the weather!).
I rolled for the town event and got the following:
A funeral celebration. Some old bastard is dead, and folks are celebrating in the streets. Someone offers you a cup of strange wine. Remove hungry and thirsty or if not hungry and thirsty, you wake up hungry and thirsty and hung over the next morning. In the latter case, you may remove angry or afraid if you have them.
I told the players while the PCs were travelling and dickering with bandits, Derren had died from an unexpected stirge poisoning. This produced some laughter. Golin had the idea of pretending to drink wine, but actually storying it in waterskin. I said that would be a Criminal check, and he didn't want to try that. But Korvin was up for it, and succeeded at a the check with his Criminal 3. Golin and Fea-bella both decided to drink, and that was when I then read out the bit about them gaining hungry and thirsty and waking up hung over. Which was funny - doubly so in Fea-bella's case given she'd just recovered from angry. The players groaned.
I also told them what Gerda said to Golin - that Turner was the one who had told Megloss about the Tower of Stars, having himself learned about it from Scaramander, a bandit who was preparing to loot the Tower but who had subsequently been killed. Golin told her that he (and the other PCs) were the ones who killed Scaramander and friends. Gerda also said that Turner's gang had been the ones to capture Glothfindel, but that he wasn't at the Tower - he was in Megloss's house in town. Golin asked about the quality of Megloss's house, and seemed a bit disappointed to be told that it's a bit of a dive.
Upon entering town, Fea-bella and Golin also levelled, having spent the requisite fate and persona. Fea-bella chose to gain a Dream Palace, so she can learn and cast a First Circle spell. Golin opted for Shrewd, meaning that he can Haggle during the town phase without lifestyle cost, and can ignore Precedence requirements when haggling.
We finished the session there, and allocated rewards. Golin had pursued his Belief (by trying to buy explosives), and his Goal (by trying to get Turner's nice boots), and was voted workhorse for being the one who did the provisioning: two fate, one persona. Fea-bella had pursued her goal (by trying to valuables from bandits) and was voted MVP for her work tricking the bandits: one of each. Korvin had pursued his Belief (about following the clues to defeat the evil) and his instinct had helped (because he got the rumour about the bandits), and he'd achieved his goal: two fate and one persona.
Golin's player also made a note of what his goal will be for next time: to try and get Gerda a job filling the vacancy caused by Derren's recent death.
Reflection
In preparation for this session I'd prepared the bandits, but also a 2-page outline of Megloss's house. That ended up not being used, but seems like it might get used next time.
At one point I mentioned to Golin's player that this game is incredibly incongruous: the colour is superb - at that point we'd had the haggling over the stirges, and the rumour in the tavern, and the storm, and tricking the bandits - but the play itself is so brutal. He described it as the least heroic RPG he'd ever played. I suggested that The Dying Earth is not very heroic either; he thought there was no comparison.
Part of what contributed to the colour in this session was the narration in the social conflicts. I insisted that the players describe what their PCs were saying, and how they were helping, to fit their scripting: and so we got things like Golin saying to Derren (a Feint in the negotiation conflict, in response to Derren's remark that they were both friends of Vaccin) - "But I'm his better friend" (Derren's response, on his Defence action: "There's no need to be mean about it"); Korvin explaining to Derren how valuable stirges are, especially as there will be none left given the rate at which the PCs are extirpating them; and in the recruitment of Gerda a litany of accounts of and variations on how Elves do over Dwarves using Humans as their tools, with Golin throwing in help from is Dwarven Chronicle-wise.
I agree with my player that this system is not heroic. As I mentioned to a friend recently, it can lean towards the Hobbit (adventurous, sometimes grim, comedy) or the Silmarillion (a relentlessly tragic world), but has not an ounce of LotR in it. At session's end, the players were poorer than at the start, although with fewer conditions. But still with no shoes (not even Korvin), and Golin now without his maul. Golin's Nature dropped from 5 to 4, and Fea-bella's Health from 3 to 2. The PCs did collect some tests, and we saw some levelling.
The fact that Golin's player has a plan for his goal for next session makes me optimistic that there will be one, though!
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, you learn fast that you can never get ahead. TB2's world is basically a crapsack type milieu. Humanity and civilization are on their last legs, and they are NOT going to win in the end. You can go back to town and be fleeced of every coin (and I don't care how many you have, the costs of living will just ratchet up somehow) or you can take a big risk and camp some more, where if you don't roll well instead of healing you'll end up with 3 more conditions! Even if you roll well, you basically have to hurt yourself almost an equal amount to get the checks required to do anything in camp. So, yeah, its pretty much designed so, if you play to the hilt, you will end up where you were before, but with some experience. Its fun, though I tend to think that the combination of mechanics and milieu are limiting enough that few groups will come back again and again to it.
Now, maybe a generous interpretation of the risk/reward balance, and/or play in a less 'end stage collapse of the world' kind of milieu, that might produce a game where PCs can dream of realistically getting ahead in a bit more substantive way. Of course that will have to be interspersed with some really serious sequences of harsh travels and locations pushing the PCs right to the edge in order to really engage with the strengths of the system, but I could see some room in there for a bit of a range of games.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
IMHO this is the nature of all RPGs, essentially. I mean, OK, you can go find a bridge, and that will involve some sort of test, or swim across, another test. Maybe you can do one or the other more effectively, etc. Lets even suppose you can do something that is no test at all, so what? Next you will come to another obstacle and there will be a test, etc. etc. etc. Its almost like complaining that your Monopoly game lacks the 'advance to go' feature. Well, OK, in Monopoly you get $200, so there's some benefit, but the next thing is you have to take another turn and risk landing on someone's hotel again. It COULD be a tactical advantage if it lets you skip past that hotel on Boardwalk, but maybe not!
So, I don't think the questions about how and when obstacles and tests come up in these games really means all that much, that's the loop of play! Its not a question of avoiding them, that's like not taking a turn in Monopoly! You takes your turn, you takes your chances, you make decisions that might help your odds, but you're just going to go around that loop again. The game is about which obstacles you face, how you deal with them, and what that says about the characters.
In Narrative focus RPGs that's it!
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
It would, IMHO, be a pretty easy game to reskin. I mean, the 'mice' in MG are not really all that 'mouse like' in any naturalistic sense. If you called them 'humans' and translated the other elements accordingly I don't think anyone would really bat an eyelash. Its just that MG was designed to allow play in a very specific milieu that was derived from the comic/graphic series. I'd imagine a lot of people came to the game BECAUSE of the underlying material, but I don't think the themes and situations are so much dependent on that form that you couldn't reskin the creatures as various sorts of mythical monsters, etc. OTOH really why bother? If you want the flavor of the game overall then just go with the underlying conceit.
I agree broadly with your assessment of the play dynamics, at least as I've experienced it so far.
But I don't think I agree with you about the "flavour" of the milieu. I don't think the suffering of the adventurers necessarily generalises to the whole of the world. I'm not saying it's Arthurian romance! - as I said upthread, Hobbit or Silmarillion but not an ounce of LotR. But the suffering of the adventurers might be particular to their circumstances and vocation, rather than a microcosm of the world as a whole.
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