Touch attacks and grappling

[MerakSpielman]

Somehow it seems to me that you should automatically succeed at touch attacks if you're being grappled. I take it the rules would still have you make a roll?

I remember that a wizard of mine was once grappled by a gibbering mouther, having his blood sucked out or something. He killed it with a Chill Touch spell and the DM ruled that, assuming I successfully cast the spell, which I did, I would automatically be able to hit the thing.

I can see that there might be some difference between mindless gibbering mouthers and intelligent foes who might know you're casting a spell and actively try to avoid your "charged" hand, but for that situation the ruling seemed appropriate. Is this mentioned anywhere in the rules?

 

[Caliban]

Somehow it seems to me that you should automatically succeed at touch attacks if you're being grappled. I take it the rules would still have you make a roll?

I remember that a wizard of mine was once grappled by a gibbering mouther, having his blood sucked out or something. He killed it with a Chill Touch spell and the DM ruled that, assuming I successfully cast the spell, which I did, I would automatically be able to hit the thing.

I can see that there might be some difference between mindless gibbering mouthers and intelligent foes who might know you're casting a spell and actively try to avoid your "charged" hand, but for that situation the ruling seemed appropriate. Is this mentioned anywhere in the rules?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, it's a non-issue.

Cast a Spell: You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need...

No touch spells may be cast when grappled.

 

[MerakSpielman]

By virtue of all touch spells, by their nature, having a somatic component? Interesting.

But you could do it via Still Spell, or you could be grappled while holding the charge of a touch spell in your hand, so my originial question is still valid.

 

[Lamoni]

By virtue of all touch spells, by their nature, having a somatic component? Interesting.

But you could do it via Still Spell, or you could be grappled while holding the charge of a touch spell in your hand, so my originial question is still valid.

You can also use a special ability like lay on hands which requires no casting... at least that is how our DM ruled in our campaign when my paladin was being grappled by a huge undead creature. He felt a sting that he wasn't expecting for 60 points of damage.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Somebody just mentioned in another thead that you can make a touch attack with any part of your body. You could deliver a shocking grasp spell through your torso, for instance, if something has grabbed on to it. If true, this supports the "touch attacks always succeed while grappling" theory.

A related question: To initate a grapple, you have to succeed at a melee touch attack. Can that touch attack be used to deliver a touch-based spell in addition to starting the grapple?

 

[the Jester]

A related question: To initate a grapple, you have to succeed at a melee touch attack. Can that touch attack be used to deliver a touch-based spell in addition to starting the grapple?

I see no reason why not.

 

[Nik_the_Pig]

A related question: To initate a grapple, you have to succeed at a melee touch attack. Can that touch attack be used to deliver a touch-based spell in addition to starting the grapple?

Along these lines then can a dual class monk (or anyone with touch spells) make and deliver an unarmed attack, causing damage (subdual or otherwise) in delivering a touch attack?

Might make getting the improved unarmed strike feat worth while for a mage

 

[Hypersmurf]

Along these lines then can a dual class monk (or anyone with touch spells) make and deliver an unarmed attack, causing damage (subdual or otherwise) in delivering a touch attack?

Certainly. But it requires beating their normal AC, not their Touch AC. If you miss, you can't deal damage or discharge the spell... even if you would have hit their Touch AC if you weren't trying to deal damage as well.

-Hyp.