Tracy Hickman's view of the Dragon #300 sealed section

[D'karr]

Some people get offended too easily.

No wonder we still don't have world peace. It is an unattainable goal with regards to the human condition.

 

[Khan the Warlord]

I think this is overreacting - he didn't compare the authors to terrorists - he compared the writing of books that encourage role-playing of evil as being similar to encouraging terrorist activity.

Is Mr. Hickman's comparison a little over-the-top? Probably.

He mentioned terrorism in his post just a few days after the anniversary of 9/11. He mentioned 9/11 specifically. It is natural for me to include the name of the person responsible for 9/11 when I reply.

Ah. Explain to me how your close-minded mentality ("anyone who has an opinion about morality that is different {specifically, more rigid/conservative} from mine is not worth listening to") is any different than Tracy's... because you're "more enlightened?" These two paragraphs together do smack of a little hypocrisy. You're slamming the door on someone because he actually "disclos{ed his} opinion"? Heaven help Mystic Eye Games if you have an opinion I don't agree with and I find out about it. Sheesh. So he doesn't have the same moral principles you do... so what? So he was willing to share them... so what? Really, I think you're over-recting.

1. At no point am I blasting Tracy for stating his opinion regarding the evil theme of Dragon, the sealed contents, or the Book of Vile Darkness. I "slammed" him for attacking, insulting, and equating everyone responsible for it to terrorists. As I've said before, Tracy is free to have whatever opinion he wants, but there is a bit of accountability one of "fame" needs to watch for when he uses the approach Tracy did to communicate those opinions.

2. And perhaps you're right about my relationship and MEG -- perhaps I should put a disclaimer in my signature that states "The opinions and statements offered in this thread in no way relate to those of my employers, whom I freelance for".

Shame on you for overreacting and blasting someone for expressing their opinion just because it is different than yours.

I hope my earlier response in this thread sheds some light for you here, as I wasn't bashing Tracy at all for voicing his opinions -- merely the insulting manner in which he did so, both to the designers and to the gamers that would be interested in the "evil books".

The correct response to Tracy's letter, if you do not agree with him is something along the lines of, "Tracy, you're overreacting. There is a difference between talking about evil - what these works are doing - and advocating and committing acts of evil - which comprises the terrorist activity you attempted to equate them with. If you want a good treatise on this, read the treatment Orson Scott Card (a fellow Mormon) gives on the subject of literature that depicts evil vs. literature that advocates evil vs. literature that is evil. I disagree with you, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I expect you to honor mine."

--The Sigil

Perhaps you're right to a degree here, and if my responses in this thread have offended anyone, then my apologies.

Now for a bit of humor: Like Tracy, I was presented with something that I found shocking and appaling and I responded in kind. Since it seems perfectly fine for Mr. Hickman do respond while enraged in any manner he chooses, hopefully I can be forgiven as well.

 

[Harlock]

Dude- ya might wanna go back and reread some stuff. Nobody equated him to anything. Someone stated he IS a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints..a minister even.

A little calrification from a Latter-Day Saint. He was said to be "like" a minister in our church. The church actually doesn't have ministers in the protestant sense of the word. We have a lay clergy. Meaning just about every member of the church teaches, is called upon to speak to the congregation from time to time and that most of those people teaching in the church are not compensated monetarily for their efforts. Only those that are basically working full time for the Church are paid.

On to brother Hickman's remarks. I hope everyone understands he was angry. *I* was angry on 9-11. I thought I was over this thing but just watching the Today show and a few reports had me in tears again. My emotions were raw. Over the top kind of raw, sort of like Tracy's response. I tend to agree that this whole "mature audiences" thing isn't really about portraying vile and evil acts accurately to enhance your portrayal of villainy. It is mainly just a marketing ploy. Does that cheapen the D&D product? I certainly think so. I would have liked the actual D&D company, WotC, to stay above such base behavior. This will rekindle old hatred for D&D from groups that already feel it was Satanic or whatever. They do not care that it is about portrayal of villains for cinematic or thematic impact. They'll simply read the cover and feel justified in their assumption that D&D is evil.

I was hoping the D20, OGL, OGC stuff would let WotC stay above this sort of thing so I as a gamer could always point out the fact that some "bad" product was made by a 3rd party publisher for D&D but not by D&D as it were. Such is life. I am dissapointed with things like this, but fortunately I don't have to buy it or read it. Maybe it is because I am a father, a conservative, a "Mormon", or all three but I simply don't want anything in my home that my son could see or read and repeat back to a teacher, or grandparent, or even me. Tracy did overreact in my opinion. So have many of us who have responded to his letter. Dragon #300 being in my mailbox (which it may be by now) is not anything like terrorism to me, it's simply sad.

 

[Kibo]

Tracy Hickman is guilty of slandering innocent industry professionals and should make a public apology to all involved.

By accusing Tracy Hickman of slander, in writing, you have libeled him. (All the law I know I learned by watching spider-man).

 

[Grazzt]

A little calrification from a Latter-Day Saint. He was said to be "like" a minister in our church. The church actually doesn't have ministers in the protestant sense of the word. We have a lay clergy. Meaning just about every member of the church teaches, is called upon to speak to the congregation from time to time and that most of those people teaching in the church are not compensated monetarily for their efforts. Only those that are basically working full time for the Church are paid.

My apologies Harlock. I should've mentioned in my quote that the other poster said he was "like" a minister.

 

[Henry]

Perhaps I should clarify something myself for Eosin and Sigil:

When I made mention of Tracy's Faith, I was not citing it as derogatory in any way. I have read the man's work for almost 20 years, and I love his work dearly. His and Margaret's Dragonlance
work on deities greatly influenced my home-brew campaign.

What I was making a point of was, for those who did not understand his attitudes, that he is a practicing member of a faith that has very strong convictions on the topics mentioned in his opinion piece. Tracy has made no secret of his faith, and in fact has used it as a reference point in past editorials against those who claim that RPG's lead to "evil and debauchery." It is part of who he is, as surely as "writer and game designer" is. It is key to understanding part of his editorial above, in addition to the knowledge that he lived through some of the worst of times for the Public image of TSR and D&D. No doubt some of his own religious brethren have given him flack for defending this potentially soul-destroying hobby of ours.

And now, what does he see in his mailbox on the anniversary of the most tragic even this country has seen since 1963 or 1941?

I understand, I just don't agree.

 

[Blackspy]

Tracy's Rant

It's too bad that Tracy didn't cool off before he wrote his rant. Emotions are running high this week all over the world - you can't really blame anyone for getting frustrated - at least that is the way I am taking this rant.
"What the hell is a slaad" anyways? The Comics Book hysteria code made my gaming years a little different in the late 80's, as an author and designer it likely impeded Tracy's work. Vermingaard ( sp?) and Lord Soth are epitomes of villians in my world. Watching Raistlin's dance with darkness was interesting and good reading. Any DM worth his salt could make use of the BoVD or the infamous Dragon300 sealed section and keep it out of the campaign he runs for his kids and their friends. No terrorism there.
As for players copying what they play or see in the game, I don't know what level assassin/meglomanic Hitler played in his game.
In closing, Tracy, cool off the next time you see something you don't like, the families are playing the game now because their kids are now old enough - not because of the sancity of the Comic Book Code.
PS. I am also a member who is Bother About Disposable Dragons.

 

[The Sigil]

I hope my earlier response in this thread sheds some light for you here, as I wasn't bashing Tracy at all for voicing his opinions -- merely the insulting manner in which he did so, both to the designers and to the gamers that would be interested in the "evil books".

Could Mr. Hickman have done better? Certainly. However, I must admit, a (small) part of me agrees that the very fact that this material is being published should be an affront to a "mature" gamer - not because it discusses "mature content" but because it does so in a juvenile fashion.

There is also a part of me that agrees with Mr. Hickman - in that I agree that those who want this juvenile treatment published are insulting and immature. As you indicated, it's not an indictment of the subject matter so much as the way it is being handled. There is, however, another part of me that says, "well, better to be done in a juvenile fashion than not done at all." A third part of me disagrees with both of the above.

Hopefully this analogy is a little more agreeable to everyone... there are "mature" and "immature" ways to handle the same subject. Medical textbooks have pictures of the naked human form (IMO, the naked human form is mature subject matter). Playboy has pictures of the naked human form. IMO, the medical textbooks handle the naked human form in a mature fashion. Playboy handles the naked human form in a juvenile fashion.

Perhaps you're right to a degree here, and if my responses in this thread have offended anyone, then my apologies.

Now for a bit of humor: Like Tracy, I was presented with something that I found shocking and appaling and I responded in kind. Since it seems perfectly fine for Mr. Hickman do respond while enraged in any manner he chooses, hopefully I can be forgiven as well.

I understand where you're coming from - Mr. Hickman's response hits your sensibilities in the same way the magazine hit his. There isn't only humor involved here.

I will be more than happy to be the first in line to say, "you're forgiven."

--The Sigil

 

[mike]

I just read the silly rant from Tracy Hickman - to compare anything in a roleplaying game to terrorism is outrageous! Terrorism destroys innocent peoples lives - this is just a game - if you dont like it dont buy it - some folks (like me) are looking forward to 'mature audience' content.

 

[Buttercup]

Sigh. I am getting soooooo tired of all the ranting and raving about BoVD.

Some of us will buy it. Some of us won't. Three months from now, this whole brouhaha will have faded into the past. But for me, one thing won't fade. And that is Mr. Hickman equating words in a magazine with the horrible, senseless, gruesome murder of thousands of people. See, I recognize real, honest-to-god evil. I saw it in plenty that day. Words on a piece of paper can be shocking, or rude, or offensive, or stupid. But not evil. They're just words. It disgusts me that anyone could equate the two. I think of the families who don't even have remains to bury, because their loved ones were incinerated, and then I think about the most offensive words I know, written on a piece of paper. On the one hand you have a tragedy, on the other you have nothing much.

I've been weeping for our dead on and off for a year. To me, his words say that he takes those deaths far too lightly. Shame on him.