D&D 5E Traditional or Historial Arms and Armor

[Hussar]

And, as far as one time HP loss for armor, no thanks. For one, it means that commoners can't wear plate mail. 5 HP loss kills normal people. While plate isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, I'm thinking that most people could wear it without dying.

Or, put it another way. Putting on plate mail should not hurt me more than a dagger stab.

 

[Izumi]

I could see that if different armors changed which die was rolled for damage or if an unarmored target always took maximum damage. But I don't think that's what random damage was meant to reflect.

Well, there is no guarantee of a devestating hit on unarmored foes either, but since they get hit more often, they'll probably take more damage as the back and forth progresses. The HP abstraction has always been open to interpretation though.

 

[Izumi]

And, as far as one time HP loss for armor, no thanks. For one, it means that commoners can't wear plate mail. 5 HP loss kills normal people. While plate isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, I'm thinking that most people could wear it without dying.

lol, I suppose I should have mentioned you can't be reduced below 1 hp?

Or, put it another way. Putting on plate mail should not hurt me more than a dagger stab.

Unless you put on something you aren't trained in, and although slightly more annoying to actually strike, are still easily taken out by the ever-trusty armor-piercing dagger once accomplished? Yoroi doushi got their name for a good reason.

 

[Hussar]

Well, yes, if you insist on bringing in Japanese armor to the mix, then sure. But, Japanese armor was hardly the height of armor creation. It was actually pretty darn poor armor compared to similar time period European armors. Japan just never had access to enough high grade steel to ever make armor development a priority.

 

[Izumi]

Well, yes, if you insist on bringing in Japanese armor to the mix, then sure. But, Japanese armor was hardly the height of armor creation. It was actually pretty darn poor armor compared to similar time period European armors. Japan just never had access to enough high grade steel to ever make armor development a priority.

Japanese were forced to refine iron sand, but it's amazing how good their arms and armor came out despite the primative process they used to force out the impurities. As the smiths experimented through the centuries some created arms and armors of extremely high quality comparable to the best in Europe, and others mass produced inferior items. For some reason that pesky myth of the Japanese steel/method as the best in the world has rebounded the other direction into the myth of Japanese steel/method inferiority (both not true). However, on the whole, it's pretty safe to give the wootz/bulat and Viking methods as being more consistant in overall quality by comparison. Europe's overall quality though, like Japan, was all over the place.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

My rough analysis of the poll results and the comments seems to indicate a few things:

• A majority of people just want an acceptable weapons table that doesn't complicate their game or limit their character options.
• Few people have a problem if a handful of minor adjustments are made to reflect historical arms and armor, so long as this doesn't violate the first point.
• Some wouldn't mind an even more abstract armor system.
• There is a sizable minority (over 40%) that wants some level of change from tradition.
• Among that minority, there are those who would enjoy a more detailed and complex arms and armor module.

I would suggest that the wise course of action would be to provide a mostly traditional core with a few cosmetic changes, and then follow up with two modules, one that makes armor more abstract, and one that makes it less so. The former, at least, should be presented in the PHB.

 

[Sunseeker]

Some of those 2nd Ed Historical Reference books were, but, yeah, in general D&D is not about historical accuracy, but you can implement it.

As I mentioned, it's possible within the system, but not the purpose.

 

[Mattachine]

D&D level magic, research, and alchemy allows the equivalent of modern alloys and techniques, though, doesn't it?

 

[Steely_Dan]

1) If case-hardened steel gouges into your clavicle despite the presence of decent paudrons then one of two things is happening. Either you would have been eviscerated by the blow or you're facing armour piercing attacks that would have punched a small hole in you and gone out the other side.

2) And I take it you mean never forget Kender as in the "Never Again!" sense?

1) I disagree, but let's not get into LARP territory...

2) You took it incorrectly (not sideways!), I mean "...never give up, never surrender!"

 

[Scars Unseen]

I think the armor table should be cleaned up and condensed. Armor from different periods of time is fine, but the table got filled with some pretty redundant types just to fill out the AC 10 to 0 progression. Banded Mail, Splint Mail and Plate should all be the same armor (the metal parts covering the chainmail joints is just shaped differently), for instance. Same with Studded Leather and Ring Mail.

Strictly speaking, "studded leather" should be closer to the plate end of things since its closest historical analogue would have been brigandine or a coat of plates(the "studs" being rivets).

 

[Keldryn]

I would like to see weapons and armor informed by real-world use and history.

Playability is always more important than realism. However, having some basis is reality gives a reference point for the fantastic elements of the game. When things that exist in the real world function much as you would expect, it lets the truly fantastic shine.

My preferred approach would be to step outside of D&D, video games, comic books, and movies and do some real-world research. Re-examine historical records and visit museums. Attend some SCA functions, talk to the people there and if possible, actually put on some replica armor and get some basic lessons in using a weapon. No, SCA isn't going to be a completely accurate representation, but it's going to be a lot closer than watching choreographed duels and playing video games.

Over the years, I think that game design has become too self-referential. Having worked as a designer in the video game industry, I can state that it is an issue there as well. Gary Gygax was a wargamer and obviously a history buff. He also loved to read a lot of pulp-era sci-fi and fantasy, and all of these influences informed his approach to creating D&D.

Modern-era D&D now begins to draw inspriation from books, movies, or video games which were themselves inspired by earlier versions of D&D. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with this in and of itself. The danger is when that becomes virtually the only point of reference -- the end product may be a very well-balanced game that can be fun to play but ultimately feels artificial. When game design becomes too insular and self-referential, it can become more difficult to relate it to real-world knowledge or experiences. This is my primary objection to a completely "traditional" approach; it will become more self-referential and insular over time. By all means, continue to build on what came before, but refer back to real-world sources periodically as a check.

Listings of weapons and armor by historical era or technology level would be very nice to have somewhere in the core rulebooks, if only to aid the DM in world-building.

Here is my three wishes for Next weapons, armor, and other gear.

3.) I never want to see a "fill in the numbers" item. There were lots of items in 3e which were developed to fit a certain damage die/crit mod/damage type paradigm. Don't do this. I don't want to see super-spears, stab-axes, or other nonsense.

I agree completely. Especially if those blanks are filled in with made-up weapons that the artists or designers think look cool. You can go too far down the path of making every broad category an equal and valid choice. I would much rather see weapons being situationally superior than have silly variants so that weapon specialists don't feel cheated.