training

[eris404]

so how do pc's go up a level in your game? the players handbook i have (enter number here) xp, i'm level X now! do you make the players fork over some hard earned loot? how much do you charge? i've read the section in the dmg, seems to be just a bunch of ideas that could be put into use if you like them or not as per dm choice, but i'm curious what people actually use. how much time does it take?

I'm one of those crazy players who likes the idea of training and research, even if it happens "off camera." I like the idea of the characer having a mentor and having a reason to take ranks in a skill even, and I try to work this into the game. For example, I knew I wanted my character to take a level in rogue and when the opportunity to pick a lock came up, he tried it even though he had no prior knowledge of it (he's mechanically inclined, not a thief). The lock picking incident was actually pretty central to the plot and so I described George in his down time fiddling around with a padlock and knife until he got it right. So when the party leveled, no one was surprised that George could suddenly pick a lock like a pro.

But, not everyone in our group is like this, so the DMs usually let the training happen in the background and it usually doesn't cost any time or money (unless the character's buying masterwork lockpicks ). The DMs might not let us level if we are someplace unusual or dangerous, and we usually have to wait for a chance for the characters to be in a safe place where they can rest and relax for a couple of days in those situations.

 

[Steverooo]

It's Complicated...

I use a very non-traditional and reality-based notion of training... It's complicated!

I Joey Balboa, Rogue Extraordinaire, who (at first level) concentrated upon Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Search, Spot, Disable Dvice, Open Locks, and Sleight of Hand suddenly wants to become a Fighter, then he has some explaining to do... How did he pick up that Feat (and what is it)? He had proficiency in a few weapons and light armor, but how did he suddenly learn all the rest, and Medium & Heavy armor, plus buckler and three types of shields?

Now if he carried an Exotic Weapon and shield, and wore non-light armor through first level, no problem. He learned by doing. Once he has the XP, he can advance to Rogue/Fighter.

If not, then the easiest thing to do is to go to the equivalent of a Dojo, and be trained by a bunch of Fighters in weapons, armor, and shields. He'll be charged, and take some time, but no biggie...

If Joe Fighter wants to learn lock picking, then he needs to explain how, too... He can buy a lock and some picks, and learn on his own, or work with a local locksmith, or go down to the local Thieves' Guild (if there is one), enroll, become an "Associate Member", pay the fee, and take Lockpicking 101.

Now if Joey Balboa Fighter/Rogue wants to pick up some skill in Diplomacy, as a Rogue, then no problem. He has been trying to convince people for almost three levels, and needs no equipment or training.

On the other hand, when he first became a Fighter, and wanted to learn how to ride, he would have needed a horse, saddle, and bridle. He might own one, or borrow one, but he could also hire the local stable boy for a few coppers...

A PC who already knows a skill, or who is trying to use one they don't have, can advance it with no problems, usually. Learning locksmithing requires some stuff, but riding bareback could be learned without reins and saddle. Advancing skills you already have is no problem, unless you've lost your equipment. Even then, it's probably possible.

So, I had a PC wanting to be a Ranger, who began play as a citified Rogue... He took all the Search, Spot, Listen, Hide, and Move Silently that he could, and a little Swim, Climb, Rope Use, etc. When he finally became second level, he learned a bit of the other skills through experience, learned to ride the horse he'd been riding through first level, started learning to train it, and then sank the rest of the points into Wilderness Lore/Survival, which he was learning firsthand.

After that, he had no "training" issues until he wanted to know spells, and learn some Concentration. The only things really needing explanation were his use of shields and Martial Weapons. Since he bought a buckler at second level, and never used non-rogue weapons, this was just assumed to have been learned in the months between adventures...

My DMing style is to provide the PCs with floods of Versimilitude, and my "training" requirements go right along with this. Where and how you learned something is important, and you can then improve upon this pre-existing knowledge (or not) at your discretion...

 

[The_Gneech]

"My school is the streets, and staring down the barrel of a Colt .45 is my teacher!"

-Sam Diamond, Murder by Death

I've never required training to gain levels -- that's what adventuring is for! But then, back in old editions, I never gave XP for treasure found, either.

If the character is picking up something totally out-of-the-blue, such as a fighter suddenly becoming a wizard, then that would probably require some kind of in-game explanation and some downtime for them to study, sure; but if they're sticking with the same class, or the skillset of the new class is fairly close to stuff they've already been doing, then heck with it, they can just go ahead and level up. ("Hey! I finally got the hang of fireball!")

Remember that class is a metagame construct -- my warrior-mage knows he's a warrior-mage; he doesn't know that he's a ftr 1/wiz 5/eldrkn 2...

-The Gneech

 

[babomb]

I've never used training rules. I do require a little downtime, though. A night's rest is good enough for me; none of this leveling between dungeon rooms, like some games I've played in. I also require some kind of in-game justification for multiclassing, new skills, etc.

 

[Pants]

Nope, no training for me. The adventures themselves do that.

I only require training or special rping stuff for Prestige Classes, because, they are prestigious... right?

 

[ph0rk]

I Joey Balboa, Rogue Extraordinaire, who (at first level) concentrated upon Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Search, Spot, Disable Dvice, Open Locks, and Sleight of Hand suddenly wants to become a Fighter, then he has some explaining to do... How did he pick up that Feat (and what is it)? He had proficiency in a few weapons and light armor, but how did he suddenly learn all the rest, and Medium & Heavy armor, plus buckler and three types of shields?

Now if he carried an Exotic Weapon and shield, and wore non-light armor through first level, no problem. He learned by doing. Once he has the XP, he can advance to Rogue/Fighter.

I do not agree. Some level of training may be appropriate for PrC's, (as they aren't real classes anyway) but not for base classes.

One thing that people seem to forget is that classes and levels are just an abstraction; characters certainly don't run around with their class and level stitched on their tunics (not in a game world even pretending to be serious, anyway).

If i want to make a scout, I may plan on a level of ranger and then two levels of rogue. Should I go get 'training' to explain the ranks I just threw in tumble? The sneak attack die? Hell no. A few ranks in tumble and a sneak attack die come at the cost of a point of BAB and all the other goodies a ranger would have gotten at 2nd level. For this particular character, the ideal class would be a combination of rogue levels and ranger levels, so why should i have to go get training just because the class I really want doesn't exist?

I've never used training rules. I do require a little downtime, though. A night's rest is good enough for me; none of this leveling between dungeon rooms, like some games I've played in. I also require some kind of in-game justification for multiclassing, new skills, etc.

I usually have characters level at the end of a session for simplicity, but why force training for putting a point in a skill that had no ranks prior, or taking a base class level? All this does is penalize players for trying to play a concept that is not a stock base class. (Training for a fighter level? pah!)

Also, what happens when the PCs are out afield for several sessions in a row, and level once or twice in that time? are they just SOL until they get to town? (and if you use standard rules in the DMG for distribution of NPCs with class levels the PCs will be out of luck for most training unless they are near a major city, assuming they need to get training from someone actually better than they are.)

 

[PoppaGunch]

I make them pay 100 gp per level. So if they were going on 5th level, they would pay 500 gp.
Does this in any way make sense? Nope! I do it cause I just like to take away thir money.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

One thing that people seem to forget is that classes and levels are just an abstraction; characters certainly don't run around with their class and level stitched on their tunics (not in a game world even pretending to be serious, anyway).

Yes, Classes are an abstraction. However, these abstractions contain specifics within them: Skills, Feats, Spells, and other abilities.

If i want to make a scout, I may plan on a level of ranger and then two levels of rogue. Should I go get 'training' to explain the ranks I just threw in tumble?

Not if there's already an in-game justification. Did you tell your GM you were practicing? Did you try to use Tumble at all during the game? Did you already have Skill Points invested in it?

The sneak attack die? Hell no.

Yes.

A few ranks in tumble and a sneak attack die come at the cost of a point of BAB and all the other goodies a ranger would have gotten at 2nd level.

Unless you're using unearthed Arcana, in which case you only "paid" with .25 BAB and a Feat (which, without in-game justification, you'd have had to train for).

For this particular character, the ideal class would be a combination of rogue levels and ranger levels, so why should i have to go get training just because the class I really want doesn't exist?

Because the abilities of the Class do exist.

I usually have characters level at the end of a session for simplicity, but why force training for putting a point in a skill that had no ranks prior, or taking a base class level? All this does is penalize players for trying to play a concept that is not a stock base class. (Training for a fighter level? pah!)

Assuming, of course, that you level up PCs during an adventure. I've yet to play in a game that does it that way and, to be honest, probably wouldn't want to.

 

[Thotas]

Like real people ought to, PCs are gradually learning all the time. The level system is just the way players and DMs keep track of when someone's improved enough for players to notice it. Experience equals training, not experience qualifies for training. And really, when you are surrounded by gnolls and what you do to get out of there actually works, surely it makes more of an impression on you than when some old grizzled sarge you gave a platinum piece just says "no, hold the tip a little lower". The training rules from 1e were a bad fix to another bad feature (xp for gold and the so called "Monty Haul" effect); and they are awful for narrative purposes. Surely Frodo went up a couple of levels by the time he got to Mordor, can you imagine him telling Sam and or Galdalf that he needed to stop and train for a couple of weeks?

 

[Chupacabra]

In the vast majority of the campaigns I have run, I do not require any sort of training. I will not allow leveling up in media res (no leveling between Orc Barracks Room 1 and Orc Barracks Room 2, for example), but otherwise I'll allow free leveling once the party is out of danger and the adventure is on pause -- a day's rest in-game, lets say.

One exception to my general rule was a 100% city-based campaign I ran that was very heavily influenced by Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser Lankhmar adventures. As a poster above noted, I used training as an excuse to get the PC out amongst the denziens of the city, making contacts, making enemies even, as they sought training for skills, levels and spells. Training became a plot hook to have them come in contact with various Guilds and organizations within the city - Mage's Guild, Thieve's Guild, City Watch, etc.

Also, in that campaign training was a way to shake a lot of coin out of their pockets. I never wanted my players amassing such a fortune that they were focused on building a stronghold, amassing a troop of followers, or any other such nonsense. I always wanted them to be lean and hungry adventurers -- always a run of bad luck away from destitution -- not medieval Scrooge McDucks sitting on a mountain of gold pieces. Why would they wish to risk their necks on some fool adventure I had planned for them if they could instead while away the time in a comfy inn in the nicer parts of town? Training, with all its requisite bribes, tithes, fees and such became a good excuse to flatten their purses a little and keep them motivated.