trap sense and other 3.5thingies

[Shard O'Glase]

the dungeon magazine hints at 3.5 I like especially trap sense, and the guess it is a ability to find traps on the fly if within 5' like the elf sense secret doors thing. I came up with house rules on trap finding to speed the game up, I hope this is them addressing it, and I hope its slicker than what I do. What I don't want is for it to be a medium level ability.(its at most level 5 which is higher than I like) I wish it was a level 1 ability, 2 at the latest.

Martial weapon prof(two handed weapon) I like this marital weapon grouping as opposed to a specific weapon.

two weapon style seems to be full damage both hands but no -2 to the penalties for the feat, jsut cancels off hand penalties. I think I like but I'm too lazy to work out the amth, but hey at elast its 1 feat instead of 2.

These releases I'm all for, so finally some of the leaks are things I can get behind. All the first ones I just didn't like.

 

[Cassander]

Unfortunately, the adventure only provides level 5 rogues and level 1 rogues, so its impossible to gauge when trap sense sets in, but I would think it'd be closer to level 5 than level 2. I agree trap finding can be tedious, but I'm not sure I want everyone with just one level of rogue being able to sense traps.. they already get lots of skills (if they take it at level 1) and sneak attack damage, and at level 2 they get evasion and at level 3 uncanny dodge. Assuming all of this stays the same, I'd actually geuess trap sense would be level 4 since rogues dont up their sneak attack damage on that level.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think my problem comes down to this.

1 trap finding is tedious.

2. when it comes to skills I don't like things to be clas exclusive as a general rule. And if it is an exclusicve skill it shouldn't be something as common as trap finding, and by extension trap sense.

Basically I think a ranger should be able to get by with his/her search skill and some cross class skills in disable device. I don't like the virtual requirement of X rogue levels in every group. With the current magic ssytem it too ahs a you almost need X class problems as well, i jsut don't see an easy solution for it.

In my games I'd likely lower trap sense to level 1 or 2 so a very small investment is all that is needed for a party to get by. So if they don't want to focus on rogue much they don't have to. Still simply lowering the elvel you get it at is much easier than coming up with your own house rule to cover the situation, so I'm very happy this is there.

 

[Simplicity]

Well, the obvious solution then would be to make Trapsense a feat, and make the rogue gain a virtual feat for Trapsense somewhere between levels 1 and 5. I agree that I think a skill like Trapsense would be good NOT to give away at level 1. Rogues get a number of useful abilities already that make them a good class for dabbling (sneak attack, especially).

Because it's such a good skill, you'd have to give Trapsense a decent set of prereqs though. Maybe require another trap related feat first?

 

[zero skill LPB]

track:wilderness lore::trap sense:search

I think it should be Feat'd like Track. Anybody can pick it Trap Sense, but it comes as a first level feature of the Rogue class. I like modular things like that. If I were to run a game that's how I'd handle it. Search ranks still required.

Just like Track coming "for free" with the first level of Ranger, this "free" Feat doesn't mean jack unless you're buying ranks in Wilderness Lore to make it useful (I guess that'd be Survival now, huh).

Make sense?

 

[fba827]

I don't really have any basis for this, but just offering the possibility that it is much simpler than that.

Note that in the current PHB, rogues are the only people that can find a magical trap (or trap DC over 20 or whatever it says).

Perhaps they are just cleaning up that wording -- making it its own entry (rather than as a short sentence in the rogue description). Also makes it easier for the ability to be referred to by PrCs (as prereqs or as new abilities for new PrCs).

of course, it could be more than that, just adding the possibility that it could simply be a rewording/repackaging of what rogues already have.

 

[Simplicity]

I don't understand. When the talked about the classes they would alter, rogue was not one of them. Am I missing something?

The classes they mentioned are getting pretty major changes. I think most of the classes are getting some tweaks. The rogue ability Trapsense is apparently being added to automatically sense traps within 5'. All I have to say about this idea is:
THANK GOD. Trap searching can take forever if you do it by the books. Rogues should have a chance to autodetect.

 

[darkbard]

are we already speculating about how we'd houserule certain rules ... that we haven't even seen yet?

 

[haiiro]

Trapfinding and trap sense excite me -- in and of themselves, and also because they hint at the types of revisions that are being made to the game. Done right, both could be sound additions and great timesavers, and are more in line with how many people are already playing 3e.

IMO, this is a very good thing. Out of the whole large (and cool -- thanks, Cassander!) list of tweaks spotted in Life's Bazaar, the trap-related abilities and weapon group proficiency feat(s) are the ones that jump out at me. I'm looking forward to 3.5 as a whole, but nothing else about it has made me grin quite like these items do.

Edit: sloppy typing.

 

[Cassander]

Note that in the current PHB, rogues are the only people that can find a magical trap (or trap DC over 20 or whatever it says).

Perhaps they are just cleaning up that wording -- making it its own entry (rather than as a short sentence in the rogue description). Also makes it easier for the ability to be referred to by PrCs (as prereqs or as new abilities for new PrCs).

Possible, but I doubt it. Making rogues wait till after 1st level to detect magic traps seems a bit nasty. And why would it be called "sense?" I'd expect "improved trapfinding" or something... "sense" implies that this is intuitive to teh rogue. Of course, perhaps the designers feel you have to have some 6th sense to be able to find a magically hidden trap (as opposed to the "nicer materials" thing in Traps & Treachery), and Magic Traps are harder to find, so I guess you could make a case for it.

But my guess is still that it's for automatically sensing traps, especially cause I've heard people complain that constantly searching slows down play. But this is only my guess.. there is no way to know, as I'd remind everyone.. the adventure says nothing about what trap sense actually is.