Trip Attack

[hong]

Note that all says that these weapons can be used to make trip attacks, and most even explain why they can be used to do it.

The special dropping the weapon to avoid counter-trips is just an added bonus.

Yes, I know.

All I'm saying is that the rules state certain weapons can be used to make trip attacks. This doesn't necessarily mean _other_ weapons can't be used to make trip attacks; the rules on tripping don't mention anything about particular weapons being needed.

I think the bits you quote just highlight that certain weapons get special benefits in this situation. You could use other weapons, but not get any such benefits.

 

[Xarlen]

Care to explain why the Heck you can not trip with a Quarterstaff? And don't say 'Because it's not a trip attack weapon'. You hit them in the back of their leg, and jerk, they fall over.

I'm with Hong on this. If you make the trip, and then fail, then you can be tripped. If you make it with these weapons, then you can drop them instead.

And, look at the weapons: Whip wraps around the leg. As does a flail. The hook on the end of the blade. The reason you can let go is because it's hard to retrieve those weapons from the person's extremities. However, if he trips you back, or tries to, his leg's going to move enough for you to unhook, the whip to unwind, etc. That's why you can drop it: because it's hooked to their body.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I think the only weapon other the special trip weapons that you should be able trip is in fact the quarterstaff.

While you could explain how some weapons could be used to make trips, how do you explain countertrips when using them ?

If all trip are unarmed attacks if there are not performed with a trip weapon then it is very easy to explain the countertripping ability.

 

[Xarlen]

I point to my earlier post.

When you make a trip attack, you leave yourself open, and off balance, or positioned in such a way, shift your momentum enough that if you Miss, are resisted, etc, then your oponent can take advantage of that.

For example, you sweep, they jump over it and push you over/hit you with the butt of their weapon and you fall over. Your momentum is going enough that it just takes you on down.

Otherwise, WHY would I *not* try and use my weapon to trip someone? Why, if I have a battle axe, am I going to try and grab the dude's leg and pull it out from under him, when I can sweep his leg under?

 

[AGGEMAM]

And I point to the fact that trips are melee touch attacks. If you could use any weapon to make the trip it would just be a melee attack, so there you go ...

 

[Xarlen]

All right. Let's look at the term 'touch attack'.

What does 'Touch Attack' mean? Does it mean you 'touch' them? No. Otherwise 'Ranged Touch' attacks couldn't work. A 'Touch Attack' is where you ignore armor and nat. armor.

If it was an Unarmed attack, then why doesn't the person get an AoO, unless the inital tripper has Unarmed Attack capabilities?

 

[AGGEMAM]

If it was an Unarmed attack, then why doesn't the person get an AoO, unless the inital tripper has Unarmed Attack capabilities?

Because that is implied, remember unarmed attacks always provokes AoOs unless you are considered armed, however since you can use special weapons to make a trip, it does not provoke AoOs if you use those or are considered armed.

Also note that the whole mechanics of the trip is nonsense if it didn't mean the characters actually interacted with eachother in much the same way as a grapple.

Also in the FAQ there is the feat Great Throw description which implies that all trips are unarmed attacks if they are not made a trip weapon, since it effectively only lets you choose which area the oppenent is prone in within your threatened area.

Great Throw [General]
You can throw your opponents to the ground, choosing where
they land and dealing damage in the process.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dexterity 13+,
Dodge, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: When you make a successful unarmed trip attack
against a creature no larger than your own size, you can choose
where the creature lands, within the area you threaten. In
addition, you deal your normal unarmed strike damage to the
opponent. When you use this option, however, you cannot
make a follow-up melee attack using the Improved Trip feat.

 

[Xarlen]

I have to disagree.

Spears, Quarterstaves, Battleaxes, morning stars, etc, you can trip with them, in life. If I hit someone in the back of the leg with a quarterstaff and pull, they go down. This isn't shown in the rules. Look at a Scythe, a Pick. You telling me if you can't hook someone's leg in the blade and yank?

I didn't see anything about being unarmed in the trip description. It says a 'Melee Touch Attack'. That says to me the same thing as a Ranged touch attack. You ignore armor.

 

[hong]

And I point to the fact that trips are melee touch attacks. If you could use any weapon to make the trip it would just be a melee attack, so there you go ...

The touch attack is just D&D's abstract method of representing the requirement to make contact with your target (who is presumably trying to dodge out of the way). It isn't a regular attack because you're not trying to penetrate armour.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I have to disagree.

So you disagree with the rules ! That's fine by me !