Trip Attack

[hong]

Sorry, dude. You referrenced it. You argued it. You got shot down. Happens to the best of us.

But we love you anyway.

 

[Ranger REG]

You know, this has been bugging us all for ages. Is there no d*mn official word on this question, as it pops up with the same regularity as Madonna pregnancy rumors?

If you want official words, then ask the Sage, or anyone at Wizards' customer service who also handles rules questions.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Chained Spike: Because the chain can wrap around an enemy's leg or other limbyou can make trip attacks. If you are being tripped during your attempt, you can avoidbeing tripped. PG 99

Flail heavy or Light: You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your attempt, you can drop the flail to avoid being tripped. PG 100

Guisarme: Because of a Guisarme's curved blade, you can also make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your attempt, you can drop guisarme to avoid beign tripped. PG 101

Halberd: Because of the hookon the back of the halberd you can use it to make trip attacks. if you are tripped during your own trip attempt you can drop the halberd to avoid being tripped. PG 101

Whip: Becuase the whip can wrap around an enemey's leg or other limb, you can make trip attacks with it. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whipto avoid being tripped. PG 104



I say that these weaposn with special reference to trips is simply because they have a special circumstance, not that only these weapons may be used to trip atatcks [/B]

I listed the above quote because it was referenced from the PHB. I dont see how you guys can say that the statements above from the book don't infer that only certain weapons can be used to make trip attacks. I have listed the relevent statements below for easy reference:

Because the chain can wrap around an enemy's leg or other limbyou can make trip attacks

You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks.

Because of a Guisarme's curved blade, you can also make trip attacks.

Because of the hookon the back of the halberd you can use it to make trip attacks.

Becuase the whip can wrap around an enemey's leg or other limb, you can make trip attacks with it.


All of these statements explain what it is about the weapon that allows you to make trip attacks. Even the statements that you are "knocking down" your opponent with your weapon and foot, or other such nonsense put forth here, do not hold water if you look at these descriptions. Notice that they do not state something like "These weapons are superior for trip attacks" or "These weapons make GREAT trip attack weapons", they simply state that because of their design, they CAN be used to make trip attacks......so where is the argument? I know Hong will pull out his Thesarus and slide rule and come up with a logic argument, but for those of us here on earth, I don't see how this can infer anything else........

BTW I do love your arguments hong, that statement was meant as a compliment .

I personally find it silly to think that you could use a greatsword, sap, dagger, or many other weapons to trip someone.

Think of it like this. The "trip" manuever is a special manuver in D&D. Since D&D does not have "called shots", this is one of the special options you have to do something similar to a called shot. However, in order to do this, you need a special weapon, bludgeoning their legs out from under them with a mace is not something that I believe the designers intended.

Of course this is all my opinion, and I am sure others will oppose it and assure me that you could trip someone with short sword. I might even allow someone to try this crazy manuever in my game, but I would at least enforce an AOO and a -4 to hit with it (-4 for using the weapon "exotically" or as it was not intended to be used).

Thats my 2 cp. Feel free to disagree and try to convince me .

TLG

 

[Xarlen]

So no one's going to try and defend the quarterstaff.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I agree with the lone gunmans interpretation of the rules about trip attack weapons. I just think those rules are about as dumb as the countertrip rules. Basically any weapon that could possibly entangle the legs, get in the way of moving legs, or sweep the back of the legs should be able to trip people. Quaterstaves are notorious for it in martial art flicks. Counter trip bascially only makes sense for one type of trip, one where I grab you by the shoulders, try to hook your legs and then shove. That is more like a grapple than a trip. Sticking a leg out against a moving opponent, a leg sweep, and virtually every other special effect of tripping wouldn't give the opponent a likely enough chance to counter trip for it to really be included in the rules. It would be more like an evil gm trick on a fumble by the tripper.

 

[6pakofdwarves]

trippin

you can make a trip attack at any time. As it is a special action it does not provoke an AoA. Why does it not provoke one? Cuz the rules say so. I think it is a combination narmed and weapon attack. You are sweeping your opponents legs and pushing with your weapon. Therefore they can attempt to trip you back. The special weapons are special because you are making a weapon only trip attack and can choose to drop the weapon rather than be tripped in retaliation.

 

[6pakofdwarves]

trippin

oops double post

 

[hong]

Re: trippin

you can make a trip attack at any time. As it is a special action it does not provoke an AoA. Why does it not provoke one? Cuz the rules say so. I think it is a combination narmed and weapon attack. You are sweeping your opponents legs and pushing with your weapon. Therefore they can attempt to trip you back. The special weapons are special because you are making a weapon only trip attack and can choose to drop the weapon rather than be tripped in retaliation.

Works for me.

 

[Ranger REG]

I personally find it silly to think that you could use a greatsword, sap, dagger, or many other weapons to trip someone.

Why not? If the weapon can aid you in hooking your opponent's leg or gain leverage over him that he'll trip, that's great. Fighting does not have to be an aesthetic art form like dancing, it has to be practical.

Again, review the Trip rules on page 139. Nowhere does it say you have to use certain weapons (although the DM has the final ruling) like those cited above (extracted from the Equipment chapter of the PH). It explains what you need to do to make an attempt plus any special modifiers applied to the trip attack roll, and what happen if the attacker that failed to trip his opponent (i.e., opponent get to trip the attacker in response).

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Why not? If the weapon can aid you in hooking your opponent's leg or gain leverage over him that he'll trip, that's great. Fighting does not have to be an aesthetic art form like dancing, it has to be practical.

Again, review the Trip rules on page 139. Nowhere does it say you have to use certain weapons (although the DM has the final ruling) like those cited above (extracted from the Equipment chapter of the PH). It explains what you need to do to make an attempt plus any special modifiers applied to the trip attack roll, and what happen if the attacker that failed to trip his opponent (i.e., opponent get to trip the attacker in response).

What I am saying is when you take the trip rules, and then combine them with the equipment descriptions, it is implied that only certain weapons can be used for the special "trip" manuver. I would argue that it would be impractical to expect someone to be able to trip with a short sword or rapier. Not saying that it would be impossible, but that would be a DM interpretation, and in my opinion, could be allowed but with minuses (in my world, that would be AOO and -4 to your attempt).

What I mean is that the designers made trip with specific weapons in mind. With D&D's abstract combat system, thats the best you get. Of course you are free to house rule it, but in my interpretation, I see trip being used only with certain weapons.


TLG