Trip is an Encounter Power now

[Nymrohd]

Btw the fact that trip is an encounter power does not necessarily mean that it will be useable once per encounter.
You could have a Recharge when you grapple someone.
You could have additional trips if you are using weapons that are designed for tripping.
You could have a feat that allows you to use trip several times per encounter.
It could well be at will for Monks.
4E fighter is a heavily armored weapon user. Unless such a character is specialised in a weapon designed for tripping, I would not see him attempt to trip someone anyway. How on earth does someone in heavy plate manage the positioning and maneuvering required by tripping with an unarmed strike anyway?

 

[Aus_Snow]

You could have additional trips if you are using weapons that are designed for tripping.
You could have a feat that allows you to use trip several times per encounter.

Coincidentally, these two possibilities went through my mind, just as I'd posted the fact I didn't grok. . .

You could be right about those, or the others. Good call.

 

[howandwhy99]

I'm sure we can houserule trip and disarm back in. Just like with save vs. death.

 

[Li Shenron]

And guess what? It doesn't matter if you succeed or not. After you try it once, you will never get another chance.

Pft... that reasoning could be applied to ANY combat action.

That is the logic behind tripping being a per-encounter power limited only to those with specialized training.

It's not, in fact the Fighter can keep TRYING to trip the opponent. He uses up the encounter power only after a success.

 

[delericho]

Or, you know...he could just deal non-lethal in 3rd Edition...or the equivalent in 4th. Which is the way to incapacitate them without killing them.

It's a way. It isn't, and shouldn't be the only way.

Which also has the side effect of not bypassing hitpoints. "Can't get up from prone" is just bad monster design.

Allowing the PCs to bypass an otherwise difficult encounter by the application of the correct tactics is good game design. Certainly, you wouldn't want to use such a creature as the basis for a campaign, and indeed if you were to use them again then they'd better have large springs on their backs, or be in an aquatic environment, or otherwise set up to prevent the same tactic again.

In any event, attacking this example does nothing for the larger point. I have another:

The party are being attacked by Quickling Assassins with the Spring Attack feat. Due to the extreme speed of these creatures, they are finding it impossible to get close enough to apply any real damage.

Bob's turn comes up. "I know," he says, "I'll ready an action - the next time one comes within reach, I'll Trip it."

Unfortunately, even though Bob's Fighter has trained in the Trip power, there are two of the Quicklings. I guess his mentor never considered the possibility that he might have to fight more than one opponent at a time...

 

[Simon Marks]

4) Work out a new Trip system that works out opportunity and opponent skill in some unknown way that keep Trip a viable combat option, but prevents it from becoming a combat tactic with greater frequency than would be seen in real world combat or fantasy fiction. Problem: all systems I've thought of would significantly complicate the game or be tedious to keep track of. If someone has a good idea, I'm all for it, though.

Trip: Basic Power
Spend an Action Point to do this.

 

[HeinorNY]

Tripping is now an encounter power.

Noooooooo!

 

[nutluck]

Those stating that "You should be able to attempt a trip at any time" are missing the fact that you can ONLY attempt a trip when your opponent gives you the opportunity, or you risk it all (IE failure is death), so you simply have to wait, or be prepared to abandon an attempt as soon as it is clear that it will fail, which is often well before the attempt is even started.

Which is why all they had to do was tweak the rules and say trip can only be done when you have a combat advantage. Problem solved with it happening to much. Plus it is more realistic in that you have to work to get a combat advantage first if you want to trip someone.

Every time I start to like what I am reading about 4e another rule comes out like this tripping being a power that irks me and drives me back away from liking 4e.

 

[Dragonblade]

I have a blackbelt in Taekwondo and trained in Kyokushin while I lived in Japan. A couple of my friends train in mixed martial arts and groundfighting.

If you know how to grapple (have specifically trained in grappling and groundfighting), and are currently grappling an opponent who doesn't really know how to grapple or avoid takedowns, you could trip them without too much trouble.

But trying to trip someone in any other circumstance (like in a standup life and death fight where armor and weapons are involved) is an invitation to get your tail kicked if not get yourself outright killed. Trip should be an encounter power and it should not be easily available.

The 3e rules made Trip (and Sunder and Disarm) way TOO easy in proportion to their effectiveness in real life. In this regard, 4e is much MORE realistic than 3e.

 

[Naszir]

Has it been explicitly said that you cannot trip unless you have the "Trip" power? Seems like that would be a silly thing for the designers to say and I cannot imagine that this did not come up in playtesting. And it looks like you can still attempt to do things on the fly and get them resolved.

Could it be that the "Trip" power is something that is going to be more successful than if you tried it without it being a power?