Trip only with unarmed strikes & special weapons

[Liquidsabre]

Hey all, just wanted to run this by the boards real quick.

Tripping can only be done with an unarmed attack or special weapons (i.e. weapons that say they maybe used to Trip in their descriptions) correct?

The text from the Improved Trip feat: "You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed"

"If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."

So a character armed with a sword & shield could make an unarmed attack to trip (with say a foot) with this feat; if successful he would then make an unarmed attack against his now prone target but not with his sword as the melee attack has to be the same attack (unarmed) as the trip. This makes Improved Trip only worthwhile for Monks and Special Weapons characters doesn't it? A character with a special trip weapon could make their melee attack with their special trip weapon as this was the weapon used to trip with.

 

[Li Shenron]

"If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."

I don't know if it was the original intent of the feat, but this sentence doesn't necessarily imply to use the same weapon.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Phew, thank goodness I misread that, I thought the feat had suddenly gone all wonky on me for a sec. Thanks.

I still have a question on the "unarmed melee touch attack" required for a Trip attempt. Does a character have to have an empty hand or can they use anything (foot, head, elbow) to make the melee touch attack with?

 

[Flyspeck23]

I still have a question on the "unarmed melee touch attack" required for a Trip attempt. Does a character have to have an empty hand or can they use anything (foot, head, elbow) to make the melee touch attack with?

IIRC a unarmed strike (and therefore an "unarmed melee touch attack" too?) is done by a character without a weapon. So the character can't have a weapon at hand.

 

[Liquidsabre]

An unarmed strike is an unarmed attack that does damage. So an unarmed melee touch attack can't be an unarmed strike as far as I can tell.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Regardless of what the rules might say (or how they may be worded), it doesn't make sense for someone to not be able to trip unless they have nothing in at least one of their hands. Otherwise, it makes the feat completely useless for a Sword & Shield fighter.

 

[Artoomis]

Regardless of what the rules might say (or how they may be worded), it doesn't make sense for someone to not be able to trip unless they have nothing in at least one of their hands. Otherwise, it makes the feat completely useless for a Sword & Shield fighter.

The game is all about choices.

I don't think you can make an unarmed attack normally unless you have at least one free hand.

I'm pretty sure that's the intent of the rules, though it's difficult to prove this either way, but you can indeed prove it either way depending upon how much weight you give to which PHB words and definitions.

 

[ZansForCans]

I don't think you can make an unarmed attack normally unless you have at least one free hand.

There is no such restriction for unarmed attacks or even the unarmed strike. From the Combat section:

"Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts..."

You don't need a free hand to attack with an unarmed strike. There is also no restriction for Trip or any other kind of unarmed attack. Even spells delivered by melee touch don't have to be done with the hand, unless the spell specifies (although remember you typically need one hand free to cast a spell with a somatic component). If you specifically need to use your hand for an unarmed attack, then, yes, you would have to free that hand up.

Note that many of the other special attacks that aren't unarmed don't need a hand free either. Even grappling, which is not specifically classified as unarmed, does not specify you need a hand free. There is probably some DM table ruling for the specific situation here (circumstance penalties, etc.), but even with a sword and shield wielded, I could wrap you up in my arms--my hands don't need to necessarily be free. Of course once the grapple is joined, they are useless...

As for the original question, there is no language in the feat stating you have to use the same thing you used to deliver the Trip. It simply says you get "a melee attack". Contrast that wording with Cleave, which is explicit about what you can use for the extra attack.