True Necromancer PrC Questions

[sithramir]

Hey guys I'd like your opinions on some things. My new campaign starting is going to have a guy who wants to play True necromancer from Tome and Blood. He will be

I said no problem because I like them powerful.

Here's the first problem: He gets the 20' desecrate ability and thus (apparently he stacks to a 12th level caster although he's a 9th lvl character. I'm not sure why its 12 cause its not finished but lets assume its 12 for now). He can animate dead up to twice his lvl in HD but its doubled due to desecrate. So now he can raise up to 48HD of things. Now how would you deal with him trying to raise things like dragons? He wants to have knowledge dragons 10+ so he can go get a corpse of one to raise.

My solution so far is that he can still only have 1 creature of twice his lvl in HD but because of desecrate could have 2 of these. Its just the fact that he will have insanely powerful undead with him and it'll unbalance the rest of the group. He probably needs it in the campaign but thats a bit insane.

I've pointed out things like "Cult of the Dragon" will be trying to prevent him from doing it on dragons at least but he can still raise some powerful stuff. Any ideas on how to handle this?

He is also making items like 'disguise undead" amulets to use on them and shroud of undeath. I'm making sure he pays the right costs to make but I just see some bad things happening due to this. Please help

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

My first question is how is he only 9th level and have any levels in True Necromancer. It requires Animate Dead as a divine spell, that is a 3rd level spell, mimimum 5th level caster. It also requires Spectral Hand and Vampiric Touch as arcane spells, Vampiric touchis a 3rd level spell, mimimum 5th level caster. Thus he needs at least 10 levels before taking the class.

 

[sithramir]

Its called the power of the mystic theurge. Clr 3/Wiz3/Theurge 2 gives him access to 3rd level arcane and divine spells. Since he's ninth he has 1 level of true necromancer. The desecrate ability does not happen til 10th level however but its still a concern now as i'm starting them halfway to 10th (same as the group was last year when school ended even though most of them are using new characters since we changed a lot of the players who participate).

 

[Camarath]

Here's the first problem: He gets the 20' desecrate ability and thus (apparently he stacks to a 12th level caster although he's a 9th lvl character. I'm not sure why its 12 cause its not finished but lets assume its 12 for now).

This is due the True Necromancer's Necromancer ability that allow his Divine and Arcane Caster Levels to stack when using Necromantic Spells. This should not exceed the characters total level it works out to be this Wizard + Cleric + True Necromancer levels to get the total casting level for Necromantic Spells. The True Necromancer only allows your character you increase one class's casting ability per level thus True Necromancer levels do not count twice. If the character tock Mystic Thurge levels those levels would count twice because the increase both the characters divine and arcane casting levels. Also if the character's level is 9 he can not normally take the class since he needs 5 levels of cleric (minimum) and 5 levels of Wizard (minimum). But if he took 2 levels Mystic Thurge after 3 levels of cleric and 3 levels of wizard the character then the character could start the class earlier. At level 9 he could be a Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Thurge 2/True Necromancer 1. In this case he would have a caster level of 11 for his necromantic spells at character level 9. Note that Desecrate is a second level True Necromancer ability.

He can animate dead up to twice his lvl in HD but its doubled due to desecrate. So now he can raise up to 48HD of things

He can animate up to twice, or four time with in Desecrate aura, his combined caster level in a single casting (in this case 11) but can only control four times his caster level and that does not change in a Desecrate aura.

Now how would you deal with him trying to raise things like dragons? He wants to have knowledge dragons 10+ so he can go get a corpse of one to raise.

What spell would he be using to raise things like dragons? When using Animate Dead the creature loses all abilities it possessed in life and become a normal MM skeleton or zombie of the appropriate size. Using Create Undead spell the character must Rebuke the creature to command it. This would be done at the character’s Cleric + True Necromancer level (so as a 4th level Cleric in this case). The HD of creature who are commanded via Rebuking can not exceed the characters turning level.

My solution so far is that he can still only have 1 creature of twice his lvl in HD but because of desecrate could have 2 of these. Its just the fact that he will have insanely powerful undead with him and it'll unbalance the rest of the group. He probably needs it in the campaign but thats a bit insane.

There no longer seems to be the provision in 3.5 stating that a character can command undead with greater HD then your Turing level. In 3.0 the character must concentrate continuously to do so.

 

[Camarath]

Sorry if some of my post is redundant with other posts. I was working on it during my breaks and did not check to see if others had posted yet.

 

[green slime]

You have to be very careful if you allow this combination in your game. It is easy to abuse if the DM lets his guard down.


A Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 2/TN 1 (arcane spells) would cast:
arcane non-necromancy spells as a 6th level spell caster.
divine non-death spells as a 5th level spell caster.
Necromantic or Death spells as a 9th level spell caster (and here is the crunch, to do otherwise you will have a Wiz 3/Clr 3/ MT 10/TN 1 casting necromancy spells as a 27th level caster). I would not allow such a character's caster level to exceed his character level. Prior to the Mystic Theurge, the TN could not do so. This should not change with the advent of the mystic theurge.

He rebukes undead as a 4th level cleric (Cleric level + True necro, Mystic theurge grants no such ability). Therefore he may control up to 8 HD of undead creatures, within the parameters of the rebuke ability.

Desecrate grants a -3 profane penalty to turn (I assume a +3 profane bonus to rebuke), and undead gain a +1 bonus to attacks, damage, and saves. Can't see anything about doubling the amount of HD rebuked... animating dead within the zone of desecration will allow him to create twice as many undead as usual, which 36 HD of skeletons or zombies, given the example caster above. These undead are separate from those that he can control via rebuke. Unfortunately it makes no mention of other undead creating spells within this zone of desecration. It is not unreasonable to assume that those spells function better than usual in such an area. I would also rule that the divine and the arcane versions of the animate dead spell count seperately for controlling HD of zombies/skeletons, enabling the TN to control 2*4HD*Necro-caster level, upon being able to cast 4th level spells, given one divine casting and one arcane casting of the spell.

The number of spells per day in my example would be as a 6th level wiz/5th level cleric.

 

[nimisgod]

Animate dead in 3.5 allows you to animate 4HD per caster level.

Unfortunately, you can only animate up to 20 HD skeletons or 10 HD zombies (because zombie HD is doubled).

 

[Camarath]

A Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 2/TN 1 (arcane spells) would cast:
arcane non-necromancy spells as a 6th level spell caster.
divine non-death spells as a 5th level spell caster.
Necromantic or Death spells as a 9th level spell caster (and here is the crunch, to do otherwise you will have a Wiz 3/Clr 3/ MT 10/TN 1 casting necromancy spells as a 27th level caster). I would not allow such a character's caster level to exceed his character level. Prior to the Mystic Theurge, the TN could not do so. This should not change with the advent of the mystic theurge.

This is of course a departure from the rules as they are written. It may be an appropriate change with using a 3.0 Prestige Class in a 3.5 game but it is still not by the book. So it is the DM's call on how to handle it. I personally do not see a problem with counting the Mystic Theurge levels twice as long as the character does not take any more Mystic Theurge levels.

He rebukes undead as a 4th level cleric (Cleric level + True necro, Mystic theurge grants no such ability). Therefore he may control up to 8 HD of undead creatures, within the parameters of the rebuke ability.

From SRD
Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

 

[The Little Raven]

My 3.5 True Necromancer

True Necromancer
(Insert normal flavor text here)
Hit Die: d4.

Requirements
To qualify to become a true necromancer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nongood.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast animate dead (as a domain spell), spectral hand, and vampiric touch.
Special: Must have access to the Death domain.

Class Skills
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier

1 Necromancy spell power +1, rebuke undead
2 Zone of desecration
3 Necromancy spell power +2
4 Create undead 1/day
5 Necromancy spell power +3
6 Major desecration, create undead 2/day
7 Necromancy spell power +4
8 Create greater undead 1/day, create undead 3/day
9 Necromancy spell power +5
10 Create greater undead 2/day, create undead 4/day, energy drain 1/day

Class Features
The following are the class features of the true necromancer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: None.
Spells per Day: When a true necromancer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. She does not, however, gain all the benefits a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a true necromancer, she must decide to which class she adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Rebuke Undead (Su): The true necromancer can rebuke or command undead as a cleric of his class level. If the true necromancer could already rebuke undead, all levels of classes that grant the ability stack. Thus a cleric5/wizard5/true necromancer3 would be considered a cleric 8 for rebuking undead.
Necromancy Spell Power: At 1st level, a true necromancer gains a bonus that increases his effective caster level for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. This bonus starts at +1 and increases by an additional +1 every two levels thereafter (+2 at 3rd, +3 at 5th, etc.). This ability only applies to spells and spell-like abilities from the Necromancy school.
Zone of Desecration (Su): At 2nd level, the true necromancer begins to exert her true authority over undead. This functions as a permanent desecrate spell, centered on the true necromancer. If consecrate is cast upon the true necromancer, this effect is suppressed for 1 round/level of the character casting the spell.
Create Undead (Sp): At 4th level, the true necromancer can cast create undead once per day. Every two levels thereafter, the true necromancer may use this ability an additional time per day (2/day at 6th, 3/day at 8th, and 4/day at 10th). This is affected by the true necromancer's Necromantic Spell Power and Zone of Desecration abilities.
Greater Zone of Desecration (Su): At 6th level, the true necromancer's Zone of Desecration has a radius equal to 10 feet per true necromancer level. The modifiers granted by the desecrate spell are doubled, as if there were an altar to an evil power within the area. If consecrate is cast upon the true necromancer, this effect is suppressed for 1 round/2 levels of the character casting the spell.
Create Greater Undead (Sp): On reaching 8th level, the true necromancer can cast create greater undead a spell-like ability once per day. At 10th level, this increased to two times per day. This is affected by the true necromancer's Necromantic Spell Power and Zone of Desecration abilities.
Energy Drain (Sp): On reaching 10th level, the true necromancer can cast energy drain as a spell-like ability once per day. This is affected by the true necromancer's Necromantic Spell Power ability.

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Requirements: I changed the requirement for animate dead to be a domain spell, instead of just knowing it as a divine spell. This felt better to me, showing the character's need to focus on the Death domain, rather than just cast it as a divine spell.

Necromancer: I reduced the power of the Necromancer ability by turning it into Necromancy Spell Power... this flows more in line with effective caster level increases in 3.5.

Zone of Desecration: I put in a reference to consecrate, as that question has come up in my games a few times. I also kicked Major Desecration (renamed to Greater Desecration) up a level.

Spell-like Abilities: I pushed create greater undead up a level, but also added more uses per day for it and the lesser form. I think this works to balance the changes.

What do you think?