Trying to make dual-wielding a bit better

[Kemrain]

For the game I'm playing in, we'll be using Grim and Gritty rules, so no sneak attacks. Pounce, instead, which adds to your to-hit roll and your threat range. With those rules, I think it would come out perfectly. I'm rather pleased with how this looks.

Now, all that needs to be done is to figure out what sort of prerequisites the new and improved TWF frat and Dual Strike should have. Anyone have any ideas? I'd prefer to avoid the 17+ 19+ Dex bits from ITWF and GTWF, simply because that pushes Rogues to take these feats, over Fighters. Maybe a 13+ or 15+ Dex or Str? There's more than one way to learn to swing two sticks.

- Kemrain the Off-Handed

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, what about skill rank requirements?

 

[Kemrain]

In what skills, though?

- Kemrain the Curious and Intrigued.

 

[Darklone]

NO idea.

 

[Kemrain]

Well, this isn't ADoM, which has a TWF skill, so I don't thik there's any skills we can throw this at to make it work. Shame, as it'd be a cool idea, though, the more I think about it the less I like having a skill that applies directly to combat.

I'm partial to requiring a 15+ Strength or Dexterity, and TWF and a 6+ BAB for Dual strike. I don't like the idea that just Dex is required for TWF, as it is, because many people wield weapons that require a lot more strength than finesse to swing around at the speeds required to be effective. I think that you should be able to go either way.

I'm suprised this thread went so long, and then boiled down to Darklone and myself. Shame, I'd hoped to have unconditional praise for my efforts. Oh well. Dark and I will fix this problem, singlehandedly!

- Kemrain the Facetious.

 

[DeBhaal]

Poor show, focusing on one hand in a two-weapon thread

 

[Kemrain]

Poor show, focusing on one hand in a two-weapon thread

The on-hand gets all the love! I'm just trying to spread it out a little. Is that so wrong!?

- Kemrain the Bemused

 

[SylverFlame]

Part of the problem definitely is the presence of SO many feats. In 2e all you had to do was purchase the ability twice and you were as good as a first level ranger.

So what about this. Completely change the attack penalties chart to make it a little more friendly to TWFers. And also, rather that using feats to give you attack bonuses (because that is what they essentially do now, by reducing the attack penalty on the chart), these feats could give you damage bonuses or allow for neat new abilities. Add a little flavour for those who want it, and give the damage bonus to make it a worthwhile choice so you're not "throwing away" feats compared to the two-hand, great-axe wielders.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I'm partial to requiring a 15+ Strength or Dexterity, and TWF and a 6+ BAB for Dual strike.

There's a problem here: big creatures. Strength alone is enough to qualify for Power Attack - and that's OK because it represents an absolute measure of your striking capability - and it is perfectly OK for all the large creatures to be able to do that.

TWF, OTOH, is different. The amount of strength needed is relative to your own size. Minotaurs have an 18 strength - which is all fine and good, but they are expected to carry and use objects twice as long as humans. An object twice as long weighs 8 times as much. A Minotaur with 18 strength has 6 times the carrying capacity of a human with 10 strength.

So a Minotaur's strength/weapon mass ratio is worse than a human's.

-Frank

 

[Scion]

There's a problem here: big creatures. Strength alone is enough to qualify for Power Attack - and that's OK because it represents an absolute measure of your striking capability - and it is perfectly OK for all the large creatures to be able to do that.

TWF, OTOH, is different. The amount of strength needed is relative to your own size. Minotaurs have an 18 strength - which is all fine and good, but they are expected to carry and use objects twice as long as humans. An object twice as long weighs 8 times as much. A Minotaur with 18 strength has 6 times the carrying capacity of a human with 10 strength.

So a Minotaur's strength/weapon mass ratio is worse than a human's.

-Frank

And giants couldnt walk and dragons couldnt fly. Back to the actual game now