TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Venger is going to be at the TSR CON CON?! The idiot who "cursed" rpg.net?

I thought I had a good reason to avoid the place before!

Wow, that’s some weapons-grade cringetonium…
 

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Mort

Legend
Supporter
I wasn’t going to go to GaryCon in person this year anyway, but here’s another reason why I made the right choice.

Won't happen, but considering the near certainty TSRCon will be a Covid super spreader (assuming anyone shows up), if I were Garycon's organizers - i'd ask to be updated on TSRs attendance list and ban anyone who attended there!
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
Venger is going to be at the TSR CON CON?! The idiot who "cursed" rpg.net?

Also the guy who was prevented from joining the Church of Satan in a leadership role because he wanted to create a grotto based on the fictional mythos of H.P. Lovecraft (he spun it as his being "too Satanic" or "too evil" but neither is true). There was, at one time, a pretty thorough accounting of the incident online.
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Also the guy who was prevented from joining the Church of Satan in a leadership role because he wanted to create a grotto based on the fictional mythos of H.P. Lovecraft (he spun it as his being "too Satanic" or "too evil" but neither is true). There was, at one time, a pretty thorough accounting of the incident online.
Unsurprising given his demonstrated thorough misunderstanding of the actual doctrine of the Church of Satan. It’s like, mostly just hedonism but edgy, with a splash of plagiarized Hermeticism.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Unsurprising given his demonstrated thorough misunderstanding of the actual doctrine of the Church of Satan. It’s like, mostly just hedonism but edgy, with a splash of plagiarized Hermeticism.
It's the closest to truth, yet shortest, description of the movement I've seen!

...it also describes me so well.

Venger seems to be the exact same person as I if I hadnt stopped being the ass-hat I was in my teenager years. :p
 



DLIMedia

Adventurer
Also the guy who was prevented from joining the Church of Satan in a leadership role because he wanted to create a grotto based on the fictional mythos of H.P. Lovecraft (he spun it as his being "too Satanic" or "too evil" but neither is true).

Wait, what? That really happened?
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
Venger is going to be at the TSR CON CON?! The idiot who "cursed" rpg.net?

I thought I had a good reason to avoid the place before!

... and you can pay $100 for the privilege of playing in one of his games. Same price for Ernie, while LaNasa is much cheaper at $50!
 




I mean, if you want real legal opinions, there are lawyers who have discussed the case:


But I believe one of the first things he says is that he's not a trademark lawyer, and he's in Michigan, not Washington. Also, I think this was based on the original, now withdrawn filing.
 


Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen
I mean, if you want real legal opinions, there are lawyers who have discussed the case:


But I believe one of the first things he says is that he's not a trademark lawyer, and he's in Michigan, not Washington. Also, I think this was based on the original, now withdrawn filing.
Yes, that's the prior suit. The new one is in the proper venue and has been rewritten.
 

Wilphe

Adventurer
... and you can pay $100 for the privilege of playing in one of his games. Same price for Ernie, while LaNasa is much cheaper at $50!

Immix: So how much do you guys charge when you run a game?

Tijuna Glans: Um, $100

Immix: An hour?

Sir Justin Lasagna: No, for 4

Immix: And this is 1 to 1?

Alan Nut Jus: No, as many as we can squeeze in

Immix: Doesn't that get crowded?

Gnu I naja salt: If it does we just try to offend those who look the most PC into quitting, and don't give them a refund. Then we have the rest of the table mock them for being woke until the timeslot ends

Immix: Ok, I'm going to bill you $200 for this conversation, and $300 for how much stupider I feel after talking to you. No I won't take a cheque, cash only please
 

darjr

I crit!
Wait. !TSR claims that DMsGuild is the seller and therefore they are not WotC products so WotC isn’t using the logo? Yet! Yet they call the product with the disclaimers TSR products and claim WotC has the control over the placement of said disclaimers?!?

Should they they be suing Drivethru if they really believed their own malarkey?
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Wait. !TSR claims that DMsGuild is the seller and therefore they are not WotC products so WotC isn’t using the logo? Yet! Yet they call the product with the disclaimers TSR products and claim WotC has the control over the placement of said disclaimers?!?

Should they they be suing Drivethru if they really believed their own malarkey?
Yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier. Even if you assume that they are right (they aren't), and OBS is the one selling products with those marks and not WoTC, then nuTSR still doesn't get to claim them, because by their own logic, OBS has been selling them and should have rights. They have a lot of contradictory arguments in their legal filing that become extra problematic as soon as anyone shows the court the comments LaNasa has been making that directly conflict with what he's arguing in the legal filing (like point 15). I wonder if their lawyer is even aware of his other comments, Indiegogo campaign, etc?

Their argument essentially is boiling down to:

Justin: We never knew WotC was selling products with those marks, so we have rights to them
Everyone else: What about your comments complaining about the disclaimers on products they are selling? The disclaimers that only show up on those products that have those marks you are saying you weren't aware are for sale? How can you claim in the legal filing that you weren't aware of them while at the same time complaining about them the whole time?
Justin: We asked WotC for proof and they never gave any.
Everyone else: By your own filing, you said they provided you two links to the website that is currently selling them. So they did give you proof.
Justin: Those links don't count, because it was OBS, not Wotc selling them.
Everyone else: OK, so let's ignore how you said they never gave you proof while at the same time saying they gave you proof, and let's ignore how you said you weren't aware of them being used/sold while at the same time complaining about the disclaimer on them while they were being sold. Putting all of that aside, if it's OBS selling them, wouldn't they have the rights to them?
Justin: ...creates another LLC..
 

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