TSR's "subliminal" message about PC power level

[Glyfair]

Occasionally discussion will come up about stats and power level of characters. I noted a long time ago that 18's seem a lot more common than they should be if people actually rolled the dice.

So, I decided to pulll out a few sources with PC stats. It's interesting to see what the staff at TSR was suggesting to players should be expected PC stats. I'm going to go through a few things and note some statistics.

Note that these are just for discussion, and entertainment. No wagering

The first book I'm going to look at is the AD&D Rogue's Gallery. One section of the book contains stats for various player characters, including many whose names are quite well known. I'm going to note the noted player of the character, since some might find it interesting (and it's listed). Note that these aren't necessarily the actual stats from play. That's not important for this, just what TSR presented as their stats.

Also, for point values I'm going to count stats below 8 as 0. It doesn't come up very often, and probably never twice in the same character. I'm going to treat exceptional strength just as 18s. Also, I'm not taking into account racial stat adjustments (I don't have my 1st edition books handy right now).

Arrarat
Fighter 8 (Tim Jiardini)

Point Buy: 54
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 12

Bigby
Magic-User 13 (Gary Gygax)

Point Buy: 52
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 10

Ceatitle Trodar Northman
Magic-User 10 (Jean Wells)

Point Buy: 34
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 11

Fletcher Dandiria
Fighter 5/Thief 7/Bard 8 (Bob Waldbauer)

Point Buy: 68
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 2
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 14

Erac's Cousin
Fighter 7/Magic-User 14 (Ernie Gygax)

Point Buy: 52
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 8

Grimslade
Magic-User 5 (Harold Johnson)

Point Buy: 20
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 2
Lowest Stat: 2

Gormadoc
Thief 5 (Greg Fleming)

Point Buy: 29
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 9

Lanolin
Fighter 7/Magic-User 11 (Lawrence Schick)

Point Buy: 32
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 3
Lowest Stat: 8

Lassiviren the Dark
Assassin 8 (Al Hammack)

Point Buy: 23
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 2
Lowest Stat: 5

Luther
Monk 6 (Helen Cook)

Point Buy: 63
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 15

Mordenkainen
Magic-User 16 (Gary Gygax)

Point Buy: 64
Stats of 18: 2
Stats of 17: 2
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 10

Phoebus
Fighter (Lizardman) 10 (Jeff R. Leason)

Point Buy: 60*
Stats of 18: 2
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 9

* includes 18/00 Str, which I didn't give any additional value to in point buy

Riggby
Cleric 9 (Gary Gygax)

Point Buy: 46
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 11

Robilar
Fighter 15 (Rob Kuntz)

Point Buy: 65*
Stats of 18: 2
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 11

*includes 18/78 Strength, Str, which I didn't give any additional value to in point buy

Serten
Cleric 10 (Ernie Gygax)

Point Buy: 47
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 7

Talbot
Fighter (Centaur) 7 (David Cook)

Point Buy: 35
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 9

Tenser
Magic-User 14 (Ernie Gygax)

Point Buy: 51
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 10

Valerius
Fighter 12 (Erol Otus)

Point Buy: 53
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 9

Next up: The convention PCs from Against the Giants

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A good reason to use point buy, IMO, for NPCs as well as PCs.

You don't need an 18 to be cool, especially in 3e or other D20 games.

 

[Voadam]

OK now I want to pick up that pdf. I didn't know Erol Otus was a player as well. Neat.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not sure we can use third edition expectations and reasons for this. First edition was a much different game and an 18 meant more then.

 

[Glyfair]

This round I'm going to breakdown the "Original Tournament Characters" listed in Against the Giants (listed as being for characters levels 8-12. Excuse the names, they are pretty horrible.

Gleep Wurp, the Eyebiter
Human Magic-User 12

Point Buy: 39
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 10

Cloyer Bulse, the Magsman
Human Thief 13

Point Buy: 45
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 11

Roaky Swerked
Human Cleric 12

Point Buy: 55
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 10

Frush O'Suggill
Human Fighter 14

Point Buy: 42
Stats of 18: 0
Stats of 17: 2
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 2

Fonkin Oddypeak
High Elf Fighter 5/Magic-User 8

Point Buy: 59
Stats of 18: 2
Stats of 17: 0
Stats under 10: 1
Lowest Stat: 9

Flerd Trantle
Human Cleric 9

Point Buy: 59
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 12

Redmod Dumple
Dwarf Fighter 9

Point Buy: 40*
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 2
Lowest Stat: 8 (two stats)

* 18/74 Strength

Faffle Dwe'o-mercraeft
Human Magic-User 9

Point Buy: 64
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 2
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 12

Beek Gwenders of Croodle
Half-Elf Ranger 9

Point Buy: 63
Stats of 18: 1
Stats of 17: 1
Stats under 10: 0
Lowest Stat: 14

 

[Glyfair]

I'm not sure we can use third edition expectations and reasons for this. First edition was a much different game and an 18 meant more then.

Yes, but this was early AD&D. Even then the "standard" method of character generation was still 3d6. If you look at the list, 18's come up an awful lot.

Plus, even with 4d6, the average point buy total is about 29. These characters average much, much higher than that (even discouting the "legendary" characters like Mordenkainen).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm not sure we can use third edition expectations and reasons for this. First edition was a much different game and an 18 meant more then.

It looks like Glyfair is using 3e point buy to analyze their stats, however.

 

[mearls]

Yes, but this was early AD&D. Even then the "standard" method of character generation was still 3d6. If you look at the list, 18's come up an awful lot.

Actually, that's not true. It's rather surprising, but in 1e the standard method by the rules was 4d6, drop lowest, arrange to taste. Check the 1e PH, page 9, under the header "Character Abiliites".

Then open your 1e DMG to page 11. Voila!

The 3d6 and keep method was (I believe) in OD&D and later BD&D. It was never the method of choice for AD&D 1e.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Excuse the names, they are pretty horrible.

Most of the name elements have a meaning in Old English.

 

[Piratecat]

You don't need an 18 to be cool, especially in 3e or other D20 games.

Yeah. You need a 20!

Seriously, Crothian is probably correct; a 15 meant nothing in most cases, and the stats were definitely not balanced against one another. It's great fun to compare, though.

Does anyone know if Jean Wells is the maiden name of Jean Rabe, author and former head of the RPGA? I've never been sure if they're the same person.