TV - Doctor Who SE04 EP06: The Doctors Daughter (spoilers)

[Fast Learner]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the same amount of info about the situation as you do.

Absolutely, the very same info, but it didn't appear that they had the same understanding.

1. We're not talking about a normal being who was born and became who she is over time. To say "you can't replace someone" only makes sense if we're talking about the same kind of "someone."

2. We're not talking, necessarily, about a replacement that's meaningfully different. We have no real-world analogy for a being who is created fully-formed from scratch, personality and all, which could potentially be reborn with only a tiny bit of memory loss.

If we're talking about the same thing and folks say there's no way they'd do that, great! I'm not sure I'd do it. It's just that we weren't talking about the same thing.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Of course everyone's welcome to disagree. I'd just prefer that they disagree while actually understanding the situation instead of doing so based on not considering everything about it.

So- no thoughts on the soul concept, then? Or how that notion might preclude others from being willing to accept that another Jenny would be the same person as the first one?

 

[Fast Learner]

I do have strong thoughts on the soul concept, but unfortunately this isn't the place to discuss them.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I do have strong thoughts on the soul concept, but unfortunately this isn't the place to discuss them.

Sorry, didn't mean to bring things quite to that level of dialogue, but what I meant was, your earlier position was that you were completely befuddled as to why people might not have the same view on bringing Jenny back that you do. Considering the metaphysical issues that may be involved, does it make it easier to perhaps understand where they might be coming from?

 

[Fast Learner]

I wasn't befuddled that people didn't feel the same way, I was befuddled that they couldn't seem to understand how someone -- including The Doctor -- might feel that way. All arguments against it seemed to be coming from the "it's not the same person" school, without actually countering (most of the time) the reasons she might be considered the same person.

As to the soul, it's certainly clear why someone might consider it a different soul, you bet. It's just not necessarily that way, including to The Doctor.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wasn't befuddled that people didn't feel the same way, I was befuddled that they couldn't seem to understand how someone -- including The Doctor -- might feel that way. All arguments against it seemed to be coming from the "it's not the same person" school, without actually countering (most of the time) the reasons she might be considered the same person.

As to the soul, it's certainly clear why someone might consider it a different soul, you bet. It's just not necessarily that way, including to The Doctor.

Since the Doctor did not choose to create a Jenny II, we are not really looking for any explanation why he should have recreated her, but more why he did not. And the best explanation seems to be: "It would not be the Original Jenny, so a Jenny II cannot provide a relief for his loss."

 

[Morrus]

I wasn't befuddled that people didn't feel the same way, I was befuddled that they couldn't seem to understand how someone -- including The Doctor -- might feel that way. All arguments against it seemed to be coming from the "it's not the same person" school, without actually countering (most of the time) the reasons she might be considered the same person.

That's because people don't consider it the same person. They understand your arguments; they just dont agree with them.

 

[Fast Learner]

That's because people don't consider it the same person. They understand your arguments; they just dont agree with them.

No, they (and you) clearly did (and do) not, since I'm still not arguing (and never have) that it's the same person. Clearly, however, there's still miscommunication, but just as clearly it's not worth continued argument.

 

[Morrus]

No, they (and you) clearly did (and do) not, since I'm still not arguing (and never have) that it's the same person. Clearly, however, there's still miscommunication, but just as clearly it's not worth continued argument.

Semantics. Substitute "same person" for "person so similar it somehow negates losing the original and can be a replacement in some way, even if not 100%". We know what you mean. We just disagree.

 

[Fast Learner]

No, I'm not saying that either. Not "negates" at all. But "eases," perhaps, sure.

But again, really, you're not getting it.