D&D 4E Tweaking a couple of things my group doesn't like about 4E

For speed- organization is key. The Dm needs to have his monsters printed out, the players need power cards or DDI printed character sheets. And just make sure people are paying attention when its not there turn and don't hem and haw too much on their turn. this was true of all editions. But the more you play, the more comfortable everyone should be and the faster it goes. The more my group plays, the faster combats are going.

Waking up fully recovered- I had a problem with the resting rules too, mainly because it makes having shorter "dungeons" and random encounters very hard to balance. So I use the very basic houserule that a lot of people do. You need to hit X number of combat encounters before you can benefit from a full rest, no matter how many days pass or how many times you sleep. Generally I say 4 to 6 combats (or 2-3 milestones) before they gain the option to rest, get all their surges and dailies back, etc. Its simple and has worked perfectly in solving the problem for my group. They're currently exploring a swamp and 6 or 7 days have passed in game time without them having enough encounters to rest up.
 

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There are some pretty decent ideas about 'wounds' and the like rumbling around in the 4e House rules forum. They make the game more lethal, but if that is what you are looking for then that might be the way to go.

But as some people have mentioned, the danger of 4e is really when you can't just have 1 fight, blow all your dailies and an action point and then rest up for the next fight. PCs will be able to handle encounters way way above their level if you do this. The danger really comes in when it becomes difficult/impossible to take a liesurely rest whenever you like. Time pressure, harsh enviroment or hostile surroundings that make resting out of the question until the adventurers resolve the situation they are in its entireity. If you are going to be having 3 or more encounters in a row in a day you need to be careful about tampering with healing surges. When they run out, you HAVE to stop and rest or you will die. Have you checked out the 'updated' monster stats? Monster damage is higher now. Maybe that added deadliness will make your players thankful that they recover after an extended rest. If your having one encounter and then rest, then tamper away!

As for speeding things up. That won't likely happen until everyone masters their characters and the rules. But you can give incentives to people to encounrage them to stay focused and take their turn fast. One of the best ideas I've seen on these boards was the following:

If players finish their turn in under a minute they receive a token. That token can be cashed in at any time to add a plus one bonus to any roll. If you use two at once it gives a plus two. I think 3 could be traded in for a 'Drama Card'. (I downloaded a whole bunch of pretty darn neat 'Drama Cards' on an entry I found on wikipedia.) Anyway, I can't remember exactly the system the person whose idea this was used, but you see where I'm going. Besides, turning that roll that missed by 1 into a hit ... well that in itself is going to help speed combat as well.

At my table we have all agreed to the use of a timer, with timekeeper and all. The time keeper advises when the first minute of a turn is up. When the 2 minute mark is reached the turn is over. If you use an action point you get another minute. Actions that have been announced can be resolved before the turn passes on.

I give Versatile Expertise to my players as a free feat. This makes them more accurate, which means they hit a lot. Which means they kill things faster. (Plus they don't have to waste a feat slot on something so important, but so flavourless)

Also, my mosters rarely fight to the death, and certainly never 'just because'. When a fight has been won but monsters are still standing I end it in a way that makes sense depending on the situation. And I'm careful not to unfairly punish them for letting these monsters flee or surrender (not all the time of course ... and sometimes they implode, collapse, explode or disappear altogether). Another option, when you decide the battle has been lost but it has to be fought to the death, is to turn all the monsters still standing into minions: the next hit kills them.

I also like to build non-combat solutions into my combat encounters. Yes, these headless skeletons that clawed their way out of the ground on the edge of the cemetary will mindlessly claw you to bits until you smash them to dust, unless you return their severed heads that are dangling from the branches of that cursed and defiled tree in the middle of the cemetary. But that of course will be a challenge in itself.

Another house rule floating around on these boards which I have introduced with great success into my own game is the : Do Something Cool Power Card.
This is basically an encounter power whereby the player can have their character do something particularly cool that makes sense in the given situation. I allow the players to use this in conjunction with powers they have, but altering or adding special effects that make sense. I guess it goes without saying that any repetitive abuse of the card or a particular tactic means it is no longer cool and hence no longer works. This is not guaranteed to speed up combat but it will add a pretty damn fun element to it, and give your players the explicit permission to step out of the box with their characters and what they try to pull off.

Good Luck!
 
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We certainly never played older editions (esp 3e) where you 'just healed everything with MIs you bought!'

We too go for a grittier style. In essence following an extended rest in our game you do NOT auto heal to full. You can use any of the previous day's surges and then you have to start on the new day's surges if you wish to continue. So, it is still rare, but sometimes we have characters starting a day with fewer than full surges.

Other methods we use for making wounds more obvious and not instantly healed:

A save of '1' increases the severity of ongoing dam or other effects.

3 failed saves in a row = long term effects (like the dying rule). So ongoing damage leads to maybe infection and treat as disease rules. Impose a -2 penalty, etc. that could get worse or go away (like disease). (A lot of our rules rely upon the extra condition of 'Struck' we have in our game).

We like it this way. If I haven't made myself clear, please check the House Rules section of the website in my signature.

Re 'speeding up combat'. There are many threads on this if you look around. MerricB has a good one with his advice on how his group keeps things going fast. Others have added to this too. :)
 

yeah, Stalker0 also has a brilliant thread about speeding up combat. Worth hunting that one down as well.

If I remember correctly MerricB doesn't use grids or minis, but I'm sure he has lots of useful advice as well.

Maybe someone canny can post those links.
 

when it comes to extended rest i saw a group that used the following house rule

to recover daily powers and healing surgues, requires spending al left over healing surgues at the start of the rest.

Meaning you don't want to be jumped by monsters during the rest as you would be cought with no healing surgues.

and that maybe some characters would rest but the ones having guard duty in the wild would not recover healing surges and daily powers
 

Despite an initiative board, I still run into a fair number of my players not being ready on their turn. So, I've moved to just going clockwise. At the start of each encounter, we all roll initiative, and whoever rolls highest (it's been me each of the 3 times I've done this) goes first and from then we proceed clockwise. If players want to reseat themselves based on initiative, that would be fine with me, but they haven't done that yet. But it's working pretty well. I don't like dealing with all the monsters at once (when it's my turn) because I think it can disrupt player tactics, but it's fine. It has sped up gameplay, though, and that was the goal.

Of course, if you don't have that problem (and you probably don't since you seem to have experienced players), then that isn't a solution.
 

Waking up fully recovered- I had a problem with the resting rules too, mainly because it makes having shorter "dungeons" and random encounters very hard to balance. So I use the very basic houserule that a lot of people do. You need to hit X number of combat encounters before you can benefit from a full rest, no matter how many days pass or how many times you sleep. Generally I say 4 to 6 combats (or 2-3 milestones) before they gain the option to rest, get all their surges and dailies back, etc. Its simple and has worked perfectly in solving the problem for my group. They're currently exploring a swamp and 6 or 7 days have passed in game time without them having enough encounters to rest up.

Do you have any measure built in for the times when the party gets whipped much harder than expected in one of the early encounters and may not survive to the minimum encounters to gain the rest? If they must have 6 encounters before they can extended rest but encounter number 4 really drains them, what would you do? Do they have to suck it up or were there other ways to deal with it?

I was thinking maybe they could gain the extended rest earlier by not regaining something. So they could take the extended rest after 4 encounters but would only gain 2/3 of their total number of surges.

PS: Melkor, let me know if this is jacking your thread. I can create a new one if it is.
 

Do you have any measure built in for the times when the party gets whipped much harder than expected in one of the early encounters and may not survive to the minimum encounters to gain the rest? If they must have 6 encounters before they can extended rest but encounter number 4 really drains them, what would you do? Do they have to suck it up or were there other ways to deal with it?

I was thinking maybe they could gain the extended rest earlier by not regaining something. So they could take the extended rest after 4 encounters but would only gain 2/3 of their total number of surges.

PS: Melkor, let me know if this is jacking your thread. I can create a new one if it is.

Basically we're leaving it up to my judgment call, which is based around what would be the most fun and what makes the most sense thematically with what the party is doing. So if its more fun to have the party be really low on resources thats what we do, but if I figure it will result in an assured TPK or something I let them rest up.

We also fudge how long rests take. So 5 minute rests can take 15 seconds if they're in a dungeon full of monsters and they should be rushing into the next room. And extended rests could take a full day or several days after the fight with a big bad main villain type.

Haven't run into a situation where they needed to rest but I only gave em a portion of their surges/dailies back, but if it fit the story then I think its a very viable idea. We have a pacifist healer cleric in the party though so surges aren't usually a huge issue with us.

It seems like we're leveling about every 8 combats or so (plus one or two skill challenges) which is working out pretty good to with this ruling. so they basically get to rest once or maybe twice before they hit a new level (and I make them wait to level until they take an extended rest.)
 

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