D&D (2024) Twelve actions for an even fresher 6th edition, or for an ultra-basic retooling of 5e

[Polyhedral_Columbia]

D&D cannot make the leap to something that light and stay feeling like D&D...
but the HeroKids or some similar particularly light RPG could.

I definitely feel you, and I respect that view.

Yet I want to consider and explore the possbility.

Similar views were expressed when, early in 5E development, it became clear that 5E was going to be much more streamlined than 4E or 3E. In various web-articles, WotC designers went out of their way to say how much fun they're having playing earlier editions such as BECMI, as a sort of "research" for 5E.

Why not go one step further?

I think I may have a different experience than many gamers because my main world has been Mystara...which has only been officially expressed through BECMI D&D and AD&D2E. We Mystara-folks are used to simply accepting that in the "BECMI Reality", there are simply no Rangers, Bards, Sorcerers, Barbarians, and so forth. The official conversion guides would even say that if an AD&D PC with one of those classe enters the BECMI Reality, they retain their character concept and equipment, but rules-wise, are transformed into either a Fighter, Magic-User, Thief, or Cleric. When the AD&D2E version of Mystara came out, several of the famous NPCs we thought were Thieves, Fighters, and Clerics, turned out to be Bards, Paladins, and Druids! But in BECMI D&D, a "barbarian" is just a Fighter with a temper. So we Mystara-aficionados are used to being flexible in regard to "granularity", so that each rules set is like a different lense to view the same world.

It might be very difficult to evoke that flexibility in other segments of the D&D crowd. Perhaps other gamers are only used to D&D becoming more and more granular.

But still, if the game has:

• The 6 attributes
• The 4 races
• The 4 classes
• hit points and armor class
• 20 levels of advancement
• Character creation

Isn't it D&D?

I admit that this minimalist way would not be accepted by itself. It would feel like a loss. But if it were in conjunction with many of the fresh evolutions I list in the OP, I think it could fly.

 

[Yaarel]

I get that, but, there's a problem here. You're forcing those of us who don't enjoy world building to spend considerable time prepping a campaign or going out and buying a new setting book. What you are talking about is exactly how Savage Worlds works. You have a very basic game engine and then you have to build each campaign, more or less, from scratch.

I'd rather there was some of the heavy lifting already done. D&D has always come with a pretty strongly implied hodgepodge setting that's pretty easy to lift out and replace. That means that the world builders out there have a bit more work to do, since they have to strip out stuff they don't want, but, others get to sit down and play right away. That's a major strength.

You did go out and buy a setting book. Heh, you are the proud owner of the ‘D&D 5e Forgotten Realms Players Handbook’.

I suspect a Forgotten Realms expansion pack is coming soon.

Core rules can be simpler and usable in other settings.

 

[Yaarel]

I would have core rules only use ability bonuses for mechanics, and remove ability scores.

If some settings want to add a fiddly complication, by using scores to determine what these bonuses are, fine.

I have been browsing the AGE system. The fact it only has simple bonus numbers makes the system self evident and easy.

 

[Yaarel]

For the simpler core, reduce all distance ranges to three categories:

Melee = 1 yard, wield sword
Close = 10 yards, throw dagger
Distant = 100 yards, shoot bow

Reach ‘plus’ doubles it.

Close plus = 20 yards, throw javelin



If some settings want to make the ranges of weapons more fiddly fine. Just add specific numbers within parentheses:

Close (7 yards/20 yards) dagger
Close plus (10 yards/40 yards) javelin



Especially in mind style, there is no need for fiddly distances.

 

[Polyhedral_Columbia]

I would have core rules only use ability bonuses for mechanics, and remove ability scores.

For sheer simplicity's sake, I agree.

The only hesitation I have is that this "6E Core D&D" has to "look" like Iconic D&D. The "Iconic Factor" might trump the "Simplicity Factor" in some cases. The "aesthetics" of the traditional "Strength 18" might trump the simplicity of saying "Strength +4."

Similarly, Green Ronin's use of only a d20 (for True20 and MnM) is in some regards simpler than keeping all the polyhedral dice. And the 3d6 of Fantasy AGE is "simpler" than having to buy funny dice at a hobby store. But the "Iconic Factor" might necessitate keeping all the polyhedrons.

If some settings want to add a fiddly complication, by using scores to determine what these bonuses are, fine.

Interesting idea to only show the numbers for some settings (Excursions), as an "aesthetic" feature. Perhaps the D&D Fantasy Excursions would keep the "traditional 3 to 18", but the Modern, SciFi, and Superhero Excursions would introduce the simpler (-4 to +4) notation. Good idea.

I have been browsing the AGE system. The fact it only has simple bonus numbers makes the system self evident and easy.

Yep, from what I've seen so far, AGE appears to be, overall, the closest existing system to what I'm looking for.

 

[Polyhedral_Columbia]

For the simpler core, reduce all distance ranges to three categories:

Melee = 1 yard, wield sword
Close = 10 yards, throw dagger
Distant = 100 yards, shoot bow

Yep, three or two ranges is plenty.

 

[Yaarel]

Have the system use bonuses only. Have ‘iconic settings’ use ‘iconic scores’.

But even a setting that has scores, its *mechanics* never uses scores anyway.

There is no Stealth check that uses a score in a roll: ‘d20 + Dexterity 15’. Rather, it is only ever a bonus: ‘d20 + 2 Dexterity’.

The scores only sit on the character sheet, and otherwise are never used nor seen.

 

[Yaarel]

Essentially, scores are merely a method of randomizing ability bonuses, by using 3d6 to determine bonuses.

But I would rather have point buy anyway.

Elf Wizard

0 Strength
2 Dexterity
0 Constitution
3 Intelligence
0 Wisdom
2 Charisma



And done.

 

[painted_klown]

I would supplement this with a dirt-cheap black & white softcover version.

Excellent idea. The printing costs (on a large scale) would probably be low enough to make purchased copies less than paying office max or whatever to print them out. If they could keep the cost at $12 or less, these would be great to buy stacks of to hand out to new players, or even potential players. The more I think about this idea, the more I wish it were real. All of my friends are in their mid to late 30s. For better or worse, we aren't really the types who like to sift through PDF files, especially 115 pages of a PDF. It would be MUCH easier to have these at the table to hand out to players when going over rules, teaching them the game, rolling up characters, looking up spells, etc. Heck, I would buy 4 copies, for that reason alone. I imagine that others would as well.

*(I am the only one who's felt a bit embarrassed when running a D&D game with non-gamer friends, when at the end, we're tallying up XP like some bean-counting accountants? "Experience Points" are just not cool. They sound too much like "brownie points." )

LOL! Don't feel bad man. I ran a group through LMoP and never once kept track of XP. Too much book keeping for me, as it was the first time I had ever played or ran D&D. Instead, what I did was read ahead in the adventure and level everyone up "when it was time". My players loved it, and were always excited when we ended a session with me saying "Ok, at the start of the next session, we're going to level everyone up". I think with the pre-generated adventures, this is probably easier to get by with, on a home brew, I doubt it would work as well, unless you were more experienced than I am as a DM.

Great thread, and great discussion BTW!

 

[Hussar]

You did go out and buy a setting book. Heh, you are the proud owner of the ‘D&D 5e Forgotten Realms Players Handbook’.

I suspect a Forgotten Realms expansion pack is coming soon.

Core rules can be simpler and usable in other settings.

Yes and no. FR is pretty darn light in the core books. The godly classes aren't FR based - they can be, as the gods are listed, but, they can also be a variety of other settings as well - the monsters are definitely not FR, and there are very few actual references to any specific FR lore in the core books. 5e is no more FR than 3e was Greyhawk. It's a pretty thin veneer and that's about it.

What you are seeing as FR, is just bog standard D&D. Named spells, godly clerics and druids, Great Wheel cosmology and whatnot. I know you want D&D with godless clerics, but, considering there has never been an edition that has done that, I'm thinking that's more on you.