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Two hander style gets the axe shaft!
- Thread starter ashockney
- Start date
kreynolds
First Post
kreynolds said:Orco42 said:My friends do that already.
See a hot girl and "Wow! Thats about a 17 chr".
Oh my god. That's so sad. I'm gonna whip up a feat to help you with that. Gimmie a sec...
Here ya' go! Maybe this will help your friends...
...just doing what I can.
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Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Orco42 said:
My friends do that already.
See a hot girl and "Wow! Thats about a 17 chr".
But Charisma isn't based on appearance. Duh! You and your friends are so lame!!!
kreynolds said:
That's not the half of it. When a friend got into my car he got tangled in the automatic seat belt. So he of course said "Oh no. A Seatbelt of Entanglement!"
kreynolds said:
Hmmm... You'd know I am the only one of us with a girl....
I think my my friends are going Pardue (from Mazes and Monsters) on me.
Well done...
My hat is off to you sir.
I wouldn't intend to ATTEMPT to continue the flame war as your 3,500+ posts tells me you may have more time to come up with this stuff than I. Nontheless, funny, and creative. I've met my share of folks who would have benefitted from all of the above feats.
Back to my original point (is there any hope of saving the thread)?
I talked with my player over lunch, and he has agreed that the Power Lunge/Pounce option is a good one to pursue. In addition, I am going to recommend the following feat (this is a DND feat, not a d20 modern feat, sorry to disappoint!):
Epic Threaten[Epic]
Requirements: Str 25, Combat Reflexes
Normally you threaten all hexes within 5' of your character when using a size large weapon.
Benefit: Through years of battle, you have honed your senses to such a degree, that when wielding a size large weapon you threaten an area equal to all hexes within 10' of your character. This is the same as granting 10' reach when wielding any size large, or greater, weapon.
Special: This ability does not stack with any other feat that grants reach, and does not increase the reach of weapons that already grant it. If you are wielding a melee weapon that grants reach, but doesn't allow you to threaten or attack creatures within 5' of you, this feat negates that limitation.
This will work very well in conjunction with other feats he can take, especially the Epic Whirlwind Attack, should he choose to go that route.
Thanks for your feedback.
PS - I agree Power Crit is a nice combination with two hander, but seems a bit weak overall as a feat. If you really want to do the "crit thing" it's best to go for the biggest crit range you can get on a weapon, and go weaponsmaster.
My hat is off to you sir.
I wouldn't intend to ATTEMPT to continue the flame war as your 3,500+ posts tells me you may have more time to come up with this stuff than I. Nontheless, funny, and creative. I've met my share of folks who would have benefitted from all of the above feats.
Back to my original point (is there any hope of saving the thread)?
I talked with my player over lunch, and he has agreed that the Power Lunge/Pounce option is a good one to pursue. In addition, I am going to recommend the following feat (this is a DND feat, not a d20 modern feat, sorry to disappoint!):
Epic Threaten[Epic]
Requirements: Str 25, Combat Reflexes
Normally you threaten all hexes within 5' of your character when using a size large weapon.
Benefit: Through years of battle, you have honed your senses to such a degree, that when wielding a size large weapon you threaten an area equal to all hexes within 10' of your character. This is the same as granting 10' reach when wielding any size large, or greater, weapon.
Special: This ability does not stack with any other feat that grants reach, and does not increase the reach of weapons that already grant it. If you are wielding a melee weapon that grants reach, but doesn't allow you to threaten or attack creatures within 5' of you, this feat negates that limitation.
This will work very well in conjunction with other feats he can take, especially the Epic Whirlwind Attack, should he choose to go that route.
Thanks for your feedback.
PS - I agree Power Crit is a nice combination with two hander, but seems a bit weak overall as a feat. If you really want to do the "crit thing" it's best to go for the biggest crit range you can get on a weapon, and go weaponsmaster.
Will
First Post
The main factor balancing two-weapon fighting (and also reducing the power of Rapid Shot) is that at certain ACs, you are _better off_ just doing a regular attack.
I'm positive none of you will believe me until you do the math, but with a -2 to all attacks, it works out to an AC above which you are better off attacking regularly.
With one normal attack, the AC is primary attack bonus + 5. With two, it is +3.
So a character with 9 primary attack bonus (BAB of 5, 18 Str) should not use two weapon attacks if the opponent's AC is higher than 14. At 14, it's just as good/bad either way.
A character with 11 primary attack bonus (BAB of 6, 18 Dex, +1 bow) should not use Rapid Shot if the opponent's AC is higher than 14.
Why? Because the chance of failing means the average result will be lower. It doesn't matter how much damage, whether you have sneak attack, or what the critical threshold is.
Those interested in reproducing the math, consider the 'average effect' of an attack. Value would be average damage x (10.5 + attack bonus - AC)/20.
The result of this is that two weapon fighting and rapid shot are good against less powerful opponents, but not against tough opponents.
Which is, perhaps, how it should be.
-=Will
I'm positive none of you will believe me until you do the math, but with a -2 to all attacks, it works out to an AC above which you are better off attacking regularly.
With one normal attack, the AC is primary attack bonus + 5. With two, it is +3.
So a character with 9 primary attack bonus (BAB of 5, 18 Str) should not use two weapon attacks if the opponent's AC is higher than 14. At 14, it's just as good/bad either way.
A character with 11 primary attack bonus (BAB of 6, 18 Dex, +1 bow) should not use Rapid Shot if the opponent's AC is higher than 14.
Why? Because the chance of failing means the average result will be lower. It doesn't matter how much damage, whether you have sneak attack, or what the critical threshold is.
Those interested in reproducing the math, consider the 'average effect' of an attack. Value would be average damage x (10.5 + attack bonus - AC)/20.
The result of this is that two weapon fighting and rapid shot are good against less powerful opponents, but not against tough opponents.
Which is, perhaps, how it should be.
-=Will
Mr.Binx
First Post
For tanks I would go Shield and Weapon style all the way baby. You can still duel wield shield and weapon while retaining the AC bonus of the shield. Don't always go all out on offense or you may die before you get a chance to kill eveything. Rogues should go with double-shortswords or the like and Weapon Finesse but always carry a ranged weapon. Rogues have many more opportunities to their damage in melee than ranged. Unfortunately, this is where they die most of the time as well. Either way, you're still giving up a %10 to hit even with all the right feats. You can always default to 2-handed style with most weapons if you need the extra to-hit and you actually have a good strength bonus. I wouldn't go for two-hander style unless you have the strength to back it up (18+). Bastard swords are always a good choice for your well-rounded fighter. Take into account your stats and calculate your damage output by averaging damage and hit probabilities against an armor class equal to 10+(your level*1.5) rounded down with both two-weapon and two-hander style for each level. Your damage output actually shifts with both types at certain levels and feat acquisition points.
Rogues should go with double-shortswords or the like and Weapon Finesse but always carry a ranged weapon. Rogues have many more opportunities to their damage in melee than ranged. Unfortunately, this is where they die most of the time as well. Either way, you're still giving up a %10 to hit even with all the right feats. You can always default to 2-handed style with most weapons if you need the extra to-hit and you actually have a good strength bonus. I wouldn't go for two-hander style unless you have the strength to back it up (18+). Bastard swords are always a good choice for your well-rounded fighter. Take into account your stats and calculate your damage output by averaging damage and hit probabilities against an armor class equal to 10+(your level*1.5) rounded down with both two-weapon and two-hander style for each level. Your damage output actually shifts with both types at certain levels and feat acquisition points.
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