D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[AaronOfBarbaria]

What, other than victim blaming, would you call it when the duergar explain "we were mentally enslaved, leaving wasn't our choice" and the other dwarves say "doesn't matter, you left, that's on you."?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I was refering to your take on the duergar as being "blaming the victim." It is a fantasy background that only needs to make sense in its own right, not according to real-world perspectives on socio-cultural dynamics. By creating such a background, WotC is not blaming victims, they're creating a fantasy story that has its own logic. You might not like it for whatever reason, but calling it "victim blaming" is a mis-application, a false equivalency (that fantasy worlds should be dictated by real world ideology).

Right, so abandon morality and ethics, they will not serve you here.

The logic was if you get caught by slavers and don't get to worship properly, you are a bad person. And I don't want that in my fantasy stories, sorry

 

[Lanefan]

Oh, I agree, and I'm not advocating for any official action on that part. @Lanefan just asked me to elaborate on my issues with them.

Rather than go through your longer post, I'll just thank you here for the work you put into it.

The only change that needs to be made to IMO make it all work just fine is that instead of the Duergar coming back to the Dwarves seeking peaceful re-entry and being rejected, have them come back as aggressive invaders and get rejected. That gives each group ongoing reason to be torqued off with the other, and on we go.

 

[Lanefan]

You said "gate-keeping on principle." That means any gatekeeping, not just specific gatekeeping you are against.

A yacht club keeps out anyone without a yacht, even those who want to join.

You've met different yacht clubs than I.

Most YCs in my experience will - particularly these days - take in anyone who a) wants to join, b) can front up the entry fee, and c) is capable of functioning in a social society.

Yacht (or even boat) ownership is by no means mandatory; and if it was most YCs wouldn't have anywhere near enough moorage to dock them all.

 

[Lanefan]

I think as soon as you allow a certain evil monster to be played as a race, you'll run into issues incorporating that monster into the setting, and having him work together with the other races. The only solution then is to give them nuance and make them not pure evil.

Or better yet, not allow monsters as player characters.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

What, other than victim blaming, would you call it when the duergar explain "we were mentally enslaved, leaving wasn't our choice" and the other dwarves say "doesn't matter, you left, that's on you."?

So people can't publish a story about victim blaming because people in real life have been on the wrong side of an issue around victim blaming?

 

[jasper]

Never mind. too snarky .

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So people can't publish a story about victim blaming because people in real life have been on the wrong side of an issue around victim blaming?

Okay, to start: that is not even kind of similar to anything I said - and I'm pretty sure no one else said that either.

But to go ahead and try and have a conversation instead of just point out that you're wildly off-target from what was being said:

There is a difference between a story about victim blaming, and a story that is and excuses victim blaming. If the story of the duergar and the dwarves were telling us readers that it's not correct or acceptable behavior that the dwarves have completely disregarded that what they are declaring the duergar as 'the enemy' for is a thing which was inflicted upon the duergar, not a thing they deliberately did, it wouldn't be a problem - it would just be "a story, which includes victim blaming."

That's not the case, though - the actions of the dwarves are not even kind of brought into question, they are treated as normal reasonable things to do, and that is the problem - it's a story that presents victim blaming as "good guy" behavior, and the anger at being cast out for something outside your control as "evil guy" behavior.

 

[Mercurius]

What, other than victim blaming, would you call it when the duergar explain "we were mentally enslaved, leaving wasn't our choice" and the other dwarves say "doesn't matter, you left, that's on you."?

So maybe the dwarves are victim blaming. So what? It adds texture to them, a kind of prideful blindness.

But is it victim-blaming of WotC to create such a story? Of course not.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So maybe the dwarves are victim blaming. So what? It adds texture to them, a kind of prideful blindness.

But is it victim-blaming of WotC to create such a story? Of course not.

...excuse me, might I ask where you intend to take the goal post and why you have not left it where you found it?