D&D 5E Two-Weapon Fighting alteration

[cbwjm]

Has anyone tweaked two-weapon fighting? I've seen some on the forum talk about adding the extra attack to the attack action but I'm also looking at increasing the number of attacks to scale with extra attack slightly. I'm not 100% on which I like better at the moment, but I'm leaning towards altering the feat (Dual Wielder?) rather than the fighting style to have an additional bullet point:

• If you have the extra attack option, you can make two attacks with your off-hand weapon instead of one.

Has anyone else done this and do you think this is balanced or too powerful?

 

[Salamandyr]

The only alteration I've made to two-weapon fighting is that any object in the off-hand, like a cloak, a torch or a dagger, can be used as an improvised shield for +1 AC, whenever the off-hand object is not used for attack.

I've considered changing the off-hand attack to only happen when the main hand weapon misses (and not requiring a bonus action), but haven't done so.

I don't think this is the direction you're going though.

 

[jaelis]

Has anyone else done this and do you think this is balanced or too powerful?

I think it would be a little bit powerful, the base TWF damage would be considerably higher than the base damage for GWF, with the dual wielding style. Perhaps you could restrict the benefit of the dual wielding style (+mod to damage) to only the first attack.

 

[Shiroiken]

I've made several changes. First, you can TWF with any one handed weapons, but suffer Disadvantage on both attacks unless they are both Light (or one of them has the Off Hand Property). I've added the Off Hand Property to several 1d4 weapons (dagger, club, etc.), which allows you to use it for TWF with a non-light weapon without penalty. Finally, I've added the ability to make two attacks with an Off Hand Weapon with your bonus TWF action if you have the Extra/Multi-Attack feature.

The first allows character concepts without using the TWF feat (which you might not have until level 4). The second allows for several classic combat styles (rapier & dagger) without needing the feat, as well as leveling out the damage better (1d4+2d8 balances better than 3d6 against 4d6 at level 5). The third allows the feat give you a small benefit to continue using a smaller weapon, rather than just dual rapiers/longswords.

 

[Ganymede81]

An extra 1d6 damage at 5th level certainly isn't going to break the game.

On the other hand, remember that this would stack with other benefits like a fighter's Weapon Training and would give more opportunities for Smites and Sneak Attacks to land.

It is also even more die rolls during combat. I'm not a fan of that.


Personally, I just add together the damage dice of both weapons together when dual wielding. That eliminates the need for extra attack rolls (and that whole bonus action rigamarole).

 

[cbwjm]

The only alteration I've made to two-weapon fighting is that any object in the off-hand, like a cloak, a torch or a dagger, can be used as an improvised shield for +1 AC, whenever the off-hand object is not used for attack.

I've considered changing the off-hand attack to only happen when the main hand weapon misses (and not requiring a bonus action), but haven't done so.

I don't think this is the direction you're going though.

This is an interesting idea though. Do you allow it for anyone or only those with the fighting style or feat? Do you allow this to stack with the +1 AC bonus from the dual wielder feat?

 

[Salamandyr]

This is an interesting idea though. Do you allow it for anyone or only those with the fighting style or feat? Do you allow this to stack with the +1 AC bonus from the dual wielder feat?

Anyone, and yes, it can stack with the feat. The aim is to add some flexibility and some simulation to what an off-hand weapon is for--ie deflection and opportunistically stabbing those you missed with your main attack.

 

[cbwjm]

I think it would be a little bit powerful, the base TWF damage would be considerably higher than the base damage for GWF, with the dual wielding style. Perhaps you could restrict the benefit of the dual wielding style (+mod to damage) to only the first attack.

I have thought of something like this as well. My first thought was to change up the fighting style to grant an extra attack but remove the ability mod damage to both attacks. The problem there was that it then wouldn't be of any benefit until level 5. Having a 2nd off hand attack without the benefit of the ability modifier to damage could do the trick though.

 

[cbwjm]

An extra 1d6 damage at 5th level certainly isn't going to break the game.

On the other hand, remember that this would stack with other benefits like a fighter's Weapon Training and would give more opportunities for Smites and Sneak Attacks to land.

It is also even more die rolls during combat. I'm not a fan of that.


Personally, I just add together the damage dice of both weapons together when dual wielding. That eliminates the need for extra attack rolls (and that whole bonus action rigamarole).

Sneak attack likely wouldn't be affected with my change unless the rogue picked up 5 levels of a class that grants extra attack. At that point, I'm not sure the increased chance for sneak attack would be that significant. It would definitely provide an increase in chances to smite though, that's true.

I'm a more at the other end of the spectrum, I like rolling although I agree that there is definitely a point where there are too many and it can bog down the game a bit.

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I've just had another thought. How would this affect a monk player. If they have to spend ki to get their two attacks from a flurry of blows, how would they feel when a dual wielder gets two attacks without having to expend a resource. Would they feel that their monk ability is undervalued? They may even pick up dual wielder and get those two bonus attacks without having to spend ki, although they won't have the ability modifier added to their martial arts damage dice but they would still get their extra attacks.

 

[cbwjm]

Anyone, and yes, it can stack with the feat. The aim is to add some flexibility and some simulation to what an off-hand weapon is for--ie deflection and opportunistically stabbing those you missed with your main attack.

Cool, thanks for sharing. Whether or not I go with the second attack option, I think that I will add this to two-weapon fighting.