D&D (2024) UA 8 Barbarian Discussion

[Leatherhead]

The extra rage on a short rest is a nice way to smooth out the adventuring day.

Primal Knowledge is some of the most fun I have ever had with Character, so I'm glad to see they kept it.

Weapon Mastery needs more proliferation, that Addle property from the Open hand monk would be a nice addition for some weapons.

Brutal Strike requires you to use Relentless Attacks, which means you are going to take more damage from Advantage on incoming attacks. Which brings me back into the one true issue of Barbarians for this playtest:

Barbarians still have the Achilles-heel of not being able to resist elemental damage at high levels. Adding elemental resistance to the level 11 Relentless Rage would finally make the Barbarian 2024 compatible in the fullest.

 

[Mephista]

Loving Barbarian. I just wish Brutal Strikes were at the same levels Rogue got Cunning Strike.

 

[Kobold Stew]

My biggest disappointment for the Barbarian is what they've done to the capstone of the World Tree subclass.

"Travel along the Tree" in playtest 7 was so flavourful, and so exhilerating. Even though games I play don't get that high, the thought of someday being able as a martial to plane shift was genuinely exciting. That ability alone made the subclass something to be pursued for the concept. A 500' teleport? Not so much, and fo rme would remove the subclass from something I was excited to play.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Extra Rage on short rest is a band-aid fix, but... it does fix a thing that really hammered them down. At least they admit that Barbarians are nothing without their Rage. And they still lose it if they ever become stunned/incapacitated during combat, so.

Brutal Strike is on the same level as Brutal Crits for me. You are on average not gaining damage, because you're choosing to give up any advantage to make this attack, all for buffed weapon mastery effects. The lv13 Staggering is a good effect, because it works for you grappling them or for your caster ally to hit them with a control spell, but it's lv13, so whatever.

Speaking of higher levels, Barb without elemental resists will still be dead.

 

[Charlaquin]

Brutal Strike is on the same level as Brutal Crits for me. You are on average not gaining damage, because you're choosing to give up any advantage to make this attack, all for buffed weapon mastery effects.

I don’t think that’s right. The UA says, “If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll you make on your turn with a Strength-based attack.” So, your second attack still gets advantage (and it seems like you actually can’t choose to give up advantage on the second attack for another brutal strike, which is too bad).

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I don’t think that’s right. The UA says, “If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll you make on your turn with a Strength-based attack.” So, your second attack still gets advantage (and it seems like you actually can’t choose to give up advantage on the second attack for another brutal strike, which is too bad).

You still lost advantage for this attack, and the pitiful extra damage and weapon mastery-adjacent effects don't make up for making your regular damage + weapon mastery effect more likely to miss.

If it came with some combination of a) lv5 access like Rogue Cunning Strikes b) doubled your attack's total damage c) had the Stagger effect as an option earlier than at lv13, then I could see it being an attractive option. Now it just looks like a feature that is potentially worse than Brutal Crit, because it added to what you were doing (even if badly), while this just seems like a trap.

 

[Charlaquin]

You still lost advantage for this attack, and the pitiful extra damage and weapon mastery-adjacent effects don't make up for making your regular damage + weapon mastery effect more likely to miss.

That depends entirely on how likely the attack is to hit. Just as people have worked out a formula for what the target number to hit needs to be for the -5/+10 effects of Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter to increase your expected damage, the same can be worked out with brutal strike.

I do agree that this feature should probably come at an earlier level. But I don’t think giving up advantage for more damage in a hit is inherently bad. It’s just situational.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I do agree that this feature should probably come at an earlier level. But I don’t think giving up advantage for more damage in a hit is inherently bad. It’s just situational.

I just feel it has a lot of potential to be nothing but a feel-bad mechanic like this... Especially because, though inspiration is more plentiful now, you cannot use it to help the roll, because the roll already has Advantage, you're just choosing not to use it.

But, I'll grant that the roll should be fine when the Barb has at least Bless and Bardic Inspiration up (very likely at lv9) and there's a cliff nearby.

 

[mellored]

Loving Barbarian. I just wish Brutal Strikes were at the same levels Rogue got Cunning Strike.

Rogues get Cunning strike at 5, when Barbarian get multi-attack.

So they can do 2 effects. You can do 2 effects (via weapon mastery).

At level 9. You can do 4 effects (2 weapon mastery + 2 Brutal Strike).

 

[mellored]

I do think Brutal Stikes "you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll" needs rewarded.

As written, if an ally gives you advantage, you still lose it to push.

Something like "you forgo advantage from Reckless Attack" would be much better.