D&D (2024) UA 8 Barbarian Discussion

[Charlaquin]

Isn't this edition all about that "bounded accuracy"?

Stacking Guidance+Bardic Inspiration+upcoming Fighter Tactical Mind+Battlemaster Stealth maneuver+Pass Without Trace say no.

Bounded accuracy doesn’t mean limited attack bonuses. It means attack bonuses aren’t an assumed part of progression, so when you do gain them, they actually make you more likely to hit, instead of just keeping up with the treadmill.

Also, it was questionable if this concept really even survived the D&D Next playtest. Now 10 years on, the idea that the edition is “all about bounded accuracy” is downright anachronistic.

 

[Horwath]

Bounded accuracy doesn’t mean limited attack bonuses. It means attack bonuses aren’t an assumed part of progression, so when you do gain them, they actually make you more likely to hit, instead of just keeping up with the treadmill.

Also, it was questionable if this concept really even survived the D&D Next playtest. Now 10 years on, the idea that the edition is “all about bounded accuracy” is downright anachronistic.

that is why you remove +X to attack and damage from weapons and add +Xd6 damage only.
+X armor gets 3X damage reduction.

 

[Charlaquin]

that is why you remove +X to attack and damage from weapons and add +Xd6 damage only.

That would be my preference, yes.

+X armor gets 3X damage reduction.

Eh, I don’t love damage reduction as it slows down damage calculation. I’d be fine with simply doing away with +X on magical armor, and let the armor’s other properties be the selling point.

 

[Horwath]

Eh, I don’t love damage reduction as it slows down damage calculation.

it's 1st grade elementary school math, how simpler can it get?

I’d be fine with simply doing away with +X on magical armor, and let the armor’s other properties be the selling point.

This is also an option, but I would reserve that for shields. No stacking of DR from shields and armor.
+X works for armors somewhat, but both armor and shield breaks the game currently.
+1 AC magical should be very rare and highest bonus available at all.
It should be a special armor, not run of the mill basic magic armor.

 

[Stalker0]

it's 1st grade elementary school math, how simpler can it get?

Its not simple vs complex. Its repetitive calculations.

A single subtraction, sure easy no problem. Now attack 6 enemies each with 2 attacks on the guy with DR, ok now I'm doing 12 subtractions after all the additions I did to get the attack damage, oh and after I did all the die rolling....but remembering to adjust for the cover bonus on that one guy. Oh and of course my player had a reaction in the middle, have to stop for that.

It all adds up. To keep combats moving quickly, DMs have to do a lot of math quickly round after round after round. The more math you add, the more burden that is. Doesn't matter how simple the math is, more math is still more math.

 

[Horwath]

Its not simple vs complex. Its repetitive calculations.

A single subtraction, sure easy no problem. Now attack 6 enemies each with 2 attacks on the guy with DR, ok now I'm doing 12 subtractions after all the additions I did to get the attack damage, oh and after I did all the die rolling....but remembering to adjust for the cover bonus on that one guy. Oh and of course my player had a reaction in the middle, have to stop for that.

It all adds up. To keep combats moving quickly, DMs have to do a lot of math quickly round after round after round. The more math you add, the more burden that is. Doesn't matter how simple the math is, more math is still more math.

DM tells you damage, you calculate your HP loss, DM can continue rolling.

 

[Stalker0]

DM tells you damage, you calculate your HP loss, DM can continue rolling.

you could do it that way. now you have players that have to do all the math. In my experience most dms are better at math than many players (just by practice as they run so many more creatures).

The problem remains, more math = more math. If you have situations where you can reduce the math, that is a benefit.

 

[Mephista]

They have weapon mastery at level 1. And you don't need to take Graze.

At 2, with reckless attack and a pike, they are the best pushers in the game.
Or use a Maul to be the best at knocking prone.

At level 5, they can do both.

Do you really expect people to be doing the golf-bag thing? And constantly swap in game? Because that's not how I've seen things work so far. YMMV, and its all anacdotal, but I don't see that happening, so to me that's a false statement.

Not to mention, its not really a choice if you do things that way. If you get into a flow, you MUST do Pike, Maul. Then Maul, Pike (or whatever) next turn. There's no action-by-action choice. The equip/unequip flow gets messed up otherwise.

Heaven forbid magic weapons make it either. Most people don't have multiple magic weapons to equip and unequip, which makes weapon swapping a trap.

So, at this point I'm going to just say I disagree with your stance and repeat my own. Dropping them to level 5 would be better.

 

[mellored]

Do you really expect people to be doing the golf-bag thing? And constantly swap in game? Because that's not how I've seen things work so far.

There was no reason to swap before. Except to a Javelin on occasion.

But with the playtest, yes. I have seen swapping.

So, at this point I'm going to just say I disagree with your stance and repeat my own. Dropping them to level 5 would be better.

Level 1: Weapon Mastery Alternative.

Aftet a long rest, select a weapon and 2 masteries that can apply to it. Each attack, you can chose 1 mastery to apply.

A touch more powerful, but no swapping.

 

[Mephista]

<snip>

Agree to disagree