log in or register to remove this ad

 

UA: V/WP - what about this?

Nifelhein

First Post
Okay, I know it was taken from Star Wars, but reading the WotC website I found this small problem that is making me uneasy...

Damage Reduction

Damage reduction functions normally, reducing damage dealt by attacks. However, any critical hit automatically overcomes a creature's damage reduction, regardless of whether the attack could normally do so. For example, a critical hit against a skeleton (DR 5/bludgeoning) overcomes the creature's damage reduction even if it was hit with a weapon that does not deal bludgeoning damage.

So, a skeleton, that is normally immune to critical hits is not anymore when you use this system, is that so? If that is not the case, then the immune to critical hits creeps now have a larger damage threshold that they have penalties for being at?

Just hope those that play Star Wars can help, or else, someone who doesn't and already has an insight on how it works.

Cheers,

Nif.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Well, in the VP/WP system, critical hits don't represent hitting a vital spot as much as it does actually HITTING. VP is dodging, near misses, glancing blows, etc. WP is the actual hits. So a critical hit would just be you catching the skeleton and hitting it before it could dodge.

Now, in SW, DR doesn't take effect on VP damage...only WP damage...which makes sense to me, but I guess D&D has a lot more DR so it would be near useless if it was only for WP.
 

Ranger REG

Explorer
BTW, according to the excerpt, skeleton -- like all undead with no Con score -- don't have VP. All they have is WP (based on their HD). So, normal hit will apply to WP, but depending on the weapon, damage may be absorbed by the DR first. Critical hit, regardless of weapon you're using, will bypass DR.
 

AeroDm

First Post
slight hijack-

does anyone see the motivation for having crits ignore DR? This is basically opposite of what their other vita/wounds systems have done wherein DR only applies to wound damage (most often from crits).

This just seems a little backwards to me.
 

AeroDm said:
slight hijack-

does anyone see the motivation for having crits ignore DR? This is basically opposite of what their other vita/wounds systems have done wherein DR only applies to wound damage (most often from crits).

This just seems a little backwards to me.
Well, it could be because DR isn't nearly as prevalent in other VP/WP systems...other than that? I dunno.
 

Nifelhein

First Post
Thanks for the move P-cat, I thought it should be here but was not so sure. Thanks for the answer too guys.

But what about those damage reductions that are /-, are they overcome too?

And as we are at it, this would happen with an elemental, plant or ooze, that is immune to critical hits and have a Con score? Do one with damage reduction takes teh DR out and suffers the damage or does it suffers it on VP?

It helped to have the missing and hiting idea, but it still bugs me a little bit... I never played Star Wars d20 and that system is completely new to me. :)
 

James McMurray

First Post
WP / VP is just a more complicated but more realistic way to express hit points. Hit points have always (up until the last couple of hits) represented the ability to narrowly avoid blows or shrug them off completely.

Sorry I'm not actually contributing to the thread much, but I had to get that out of my system, because I hate it when people are under the impression that getting "hit" with 15 arrows in D&D means that you now have 15 arrows poking out of your chest.
 

Nifelhein

First Post
No problem, I never actually pictured it that way, we made it be somewhat proportional to the damage dealt... it would scratches or a real shot in the chest depending on how mocu damage it pictured.

I am liking this system and the fact that I play Midnight makes it even better, but I am a little worried with teh body counts with this system, specially with the critical hits, if I got it roght one could be enough to kill most characters, is that so?
 

James McMurray

First Post
Nifelhein said:
I am liking this system and the fact that I play Midnight makes it even better, but I am a little worried with teh body counts with this system, specially with the critical hits, if I got it roght one could be enough to kill most characters, is that so?

Under this system, Con will be a fairly important stat, so I'd assume most characters would have a 12 stat. That means they can take 12 wound damage before being in trouble. Without critical multipliers it is possible that a character would be killed by a crit, but not always gauranteed. In addition, there's the DC 15 save to stay alive (disabled instead of dead).

A few things would no longer make sense in that rules system. Ones that spring to mind immediately are the feats and items that allow one to continue fighting at negative hit points. Those should probably get converted to bonuses to the fortitude save and/or bonuses to your wound point total.

You might also consider removing Improved Critical and Keen from the game, since they can give a Scythe wielder a 13-20 crit range (11-20 if he's a weapon master, 9-20 if he's also a psychic weapon master). Unless of course you really want to mow through your characters quicly. :)

This system definitely fits better into a low magic setting IMO. In those campaigns healing is much harder to get, as are monstrous strength scores (at least for PCs) and heftily enchanted weapons (which almost gaurantee crit = kill).
 

Nifelhein

First Post
It indeed looks interesting, in my opinion, but at some point it would be a real problem, a fighter with weapon specialization in longsword and a medium stat would have a +4 to damage, if he critical hits, consider he wields a longsword, he has a chance to kill the character.

This character would be 4th level by then, of course it looks good, what I think would be needed is a kind of chance for the players to take their characters out of this situation, thus something like action points from d20 mdoern, although I am not familiar with it, read it once only.

Anyway, thansk for the help, it has been great so far. But what about my questions there... huh? :D
 

James McMurray

First Post
From the way the article is written, it would appear that even DR of X/- is overcome, and that if an elemental or other crit immune critter with a con gets criticalled, he also gets his DR bypassed and takes the damage as wound damage.

A very deadly situation indeed (albeit only when criticals occur). As long as no one gets critted, the system is almost exactly the same as the default hit points rules.
 

Nifelhein

First Post
It seems odd that critical hit immunes now suffer them, but mayeb there is a point to all it, my problem would be with sneak attack now... does it do VP damage of WP damage... ?
 


Nifelhein

First Post
So a critical hit with sneak attack would deal all damage to wound points? Man... beware the improved critical rapier of the sneaking rogue!

;)
 

Stalker0

Legend
Nifelhein said:
It seems odd that critical hit immunes now suffer them, but mayeb there is a point to all it, my problem would be with sneak attack now... does it do VP damage of WP damage... ?

I thought I heard it was WP damage, but every SA dice counted for only 1 pt of damage now. Although that's still preety nasty.
 

Quixon

First Post
James McMurray said:
You might also consider removing Improved Critical and Keen from the game, since they can give a Scythe wielder a 13-20 crit range (11-20 if he's a weapon master, 9-20 if he's also a psychic weapon master). Unless of course you really want to mow through your characters quicly. :)

Well for 3.5 it wouldn't quite be that bad - Improved Critical and Keen and such don't stack. :)
 


Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
AeroDm said:
slight hijack-

does anyone see the motivation for having crits ignore DR? This is basically opposite of what their other vita/wounds systems have done wherein DR only applies to wound damage (most often from crits)
Simple answer: in normal circumstances a crit multiplies your damage and thus gives you more chance of bypassing DR. In this WP/VP setup you don't multiply damage on crits, thus you reduce the DR instead to give a comparable effect (i.e. crits help overcome DR).

Where they may have got it wrong (I've not seen the whole article) is that clearly creatures which are immune to crits should *still* be immune to crits, thus when attacking oozes, elementals, constructs and undead you should still apply full DR (since in normal 'hp' D&D you wouldn't be getting a weapon multiplier to punch through their DR 'cos you can't crit them).

Cheers
 

Damn, this is just plain nasty. How do you account for Power Criticals, Augmented Criticals, Keen weapons or Hunter's Mercy?

These are pretty much confirmed crits and would kill most characters right off the bat. Even a tough barbarian only has his Con in WP? Even raging, one crit by a good fighter and he's taking a dirtnap.
 

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top