Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Fighter: Samurai, Sharpshooter, Arcane Archer & Knight

I'm getting, like, unhealthy amounts of mad, clicking on that broken link.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

First thing I thought as I read through the Arcane Archer: this would make a really great assassin! Magic arrows that do not leave any evidence.

Pick a monster race and multiclass into druid a bit, and you have yourself a grassy gnoll.

 

[Flamestrike]

It seems as if the samurai's most important ability is front loaded. I can see level dips into Samurai and then main class as barbarian (although I wouldn't allow this for RP reasons under most circumstances) or paladin or Samurai assassin rogues (which I also probably wouldn't allow for RP reasons)

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Lone Wolf is mad with you. And you dont want to make him mad.

Also, you'd prohibit Paladin/ Samurai for RP reasons? Odd prohibition. They mesh perfectly.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Overall I really like the designs... except that everything is still keyed to short rests.

I've made the point elsewhere, but short rests do not work in our group. We have 6-8 players. It's extremely rare for more than 2 of the PCs to want to short rest. Either there's enough healing in which case the long rest party members shout "continue," or multiple PCs need to long rest. On more than one occasion, some of the party will short rest while the rest of the party refuses and continues the adventure. In 20 years of gaming together, this kind of disagreement has never happened before. It is by far our least favorite mechanic in 5e. I would love it if there were a viable alternate mechanic.

 

[Lanliss]

Overall I really like the designs... except that everything is still keyed to short rests.

I've made the point elsewhere, but short rests do not work in our group. We have 6-8 players. It's extremely rare for more than 2 of the PCs to want to short rest. Either there's enough healing in which case the long rest party members shout "continue," or multiple PCs need to long rest. On more than one occasion, some of the party will short rest while the rest of the party refuses and continues the adventure. In 20 years of gaming together, this kind of disagreement has never happened before. It is by far our least favorite mechanic in 5e. I would love it if there were a viable alternate mechanic.

There was another thread that worked to make all classes short rest, and someone in that thread had an idea to make them all long rest. They recommended a simple x3 to all short rest abilities. X3 action surges per long rest, X3 Ki per long rest, whatever it is just multiply by 3. Much easier than the alternative of cutting all long rest mechanics to 1/3. Have you tried this, or is your group bent on running by RAW?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Samurai I think is the real winner, it functions equally well with a focus on strength or dexterity, which makes it kind of safe for people that want to play the armored samurai of history, or the agile samurai of modern pop culture. It has an amazing pair of combat features, and then devotes the rest to backing up the flavor in a way that is situational, but kind of likely (i feel as if most generic dnd campaigns will involve an interaction with a noble at SOME point) it's also incredibly thematic- giving it the turn interrupt, and the opportunity to rip your enemy to shreds when combined with fighting spirit... it's so iado. But it's restricted to when you would fall to 0, so it's hard to cheese for DPR, which is fine.

I can see it now: the party is up going up against Tiamat, and the 20th level Samurai carefully reduces himself to only one HP before the fight. When the fight starts, his Fighting Spirit and Rapid Strike help him immediately land (amazing luck!) five attacks on Tiamat that turn. He Action Surges another three shots, hitting once, and then spends his last attack to grab his knife and commit Seppuku, reducing himself to zero HP. Before he expires, he immediately Action Surges and Rapid Strikes a total of nine more attacks, hitting seven times, for a grand total of thirteen hits and 260 HP of damage dealt!

Does this seem awesome to you, or ridiculous? I could see it either way.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Hold the Line - Good ability. The "moves at least one foot" language seems strange and oddly specific, like it is trying to ward off some sort of "but I only moved an inch so I can't be targeted" type of shenanigans, so maybe not that strange. Aside from that this should really should be moved down to 7th level. Compare to the Eldritch Knight ability, bonus attack if you cast a cantrip, it is very comparable. At that level the extra damage would only be 3 so really not broken.

It invites different kinds of shenanigans. "It's a black pudding, it doesn't have any feet to move!"

 

[Saeviomagy]

It can make for more interesting and (perhaps counter-intuitively) dynamic encounters. It's a function that deprives enemies of their ideal tactics, so those tactics, instead, vary, and a wider range of tactics are opened up for allies. It's also not at all absolute - there's a dilemma for the marked target, but its choice isn't dictated. The effect was marked(npi) in 4e 'set piece' encounters, but it could conceivably develop in 5e, too. You'd need longer, more challenging encounters, though, adding the Knight would just be an enabler, not a done deal, but it's a nice step in that direction, better than I'd hoped for from a mere archetype.

4e was a game with much worse penalties for being in melee by default, and a plethora of abilities that could counter marking and being next to someone you didn't want to be next to. Despite all that defenders that could force monsters to stay adjacent to them were still problematic.

This class is coming into a game that has none of those punishments unless the players are built to perform such punishments. It's not enabling, it's just restricting the tactics monsters can employ and forcing them to play a game that they haven't been designed to compete in.

Sounds like a marked(pi) resemblance to the 3.5 Knight. ;P

The 3.5e knight issued verbal challenges, had significant limitations and using it was a double edged sword.

Seriously, though, it's very clearly derived from the Essentials Knight(Fighter) from Heroes of the Fallen Land (which may have also had the odd awkward rule, like an 'aura' and been shy of redeeming features, like choices of encounter powers or having dailies at all).

But it WAS designed for a radically different game.

Shouldn't be a surprise as Mike Mearls was the lead designer in both cases.

But the 5e Knight's provenance is clear: 5e Knight Archetype < Essentials Knight(Fighter) < 3.5 Knight Class < MMO Tanks with 'Aggro' < Classic D&D Fighter

I don't think there's a progression from MMO tanks to the 3.5e knight class or from the 3.5e knight to the essentials knight. The 3.5e knight has one ability that manages 'aggro' and like I said, it's pretty limited, and markedly different from the 'hold boss aggro or the entire party dies' mechanics/system that the MMO tank and the essential knight had. The 5e knight seems to be getting those mechanics, but the system doesn't fit it at all any more.

Noble Calvary and Born to the Saddle seem very "Knightly", play a knight class with a noble background and you've got it pretty spot on. The marking abilities and capability to make multiple reactions signifies a true force on the battlefield that keeps those foes near him focused on him, or else they will pay dearly.

Born to the saddle seems very 'horsemanly'. Noble cavalry is basically completely flavorless, and like most of the skill granting abilities is a little bit odd: you've been a knight born in the saddle since 3rd level (?) and now you know how to handle animals. Or be diplomatic.

I'm not sure what you could have gotten beyond more social skills, which a decent charisma is going to get you anyway, maybe Inspiring Leader

Well, the 3.5e knight

Considering some of the other features barbarians can get while raging, I don't really think a single turn of resistance and advantage is good enough to get rid of an entire other class. Most barbarians can get multiple turns of raging, and they can use their rage to cancel surprise, and each subclass improves that rage in a variety of ways.

Well, the samurai is getting somewhere around 18 rounds of this rage per long rest, with the benefit that he can take it in 2 round chunks and gets more if you can squeeze in more short rests, plus it synergizes very well with adrenaline surge. The barbarian is getting up to 30 rounds of damage resistance per long rest taken in 10 minute chunks with substantial restrictions on how long it lasts. He's getting the advantage all day long... but granting advantage to his foes whenever he does.

Also,the idea of your fighting spirit giving you a moment of clarity. The idea of taking that moment when you are going to be struck down and turning it against your opponent to strike them down instead. The anime fan in me definitely sees the mythic swordsmen of the East in that concept.

Hate to quote page numbers, but PHB pg 193, right above "Use Object" is the Search action. I tend to houserule it be a non-action most of the time, but it is there in the official rules.

I think the idea is to spot enemies that are hiding during combat, or trying to have a second wave ambush. Not common I'll grant you, but something an eagle-eyed archer should be able to do

Sure... but I'd prefer just giving them expertise in perception, especially since the hiding in combat rules are so wishy-washy and awful.

 

[Blue]

Samurai seems crazy powerful. Starts with the strong fighter chassis: action surge, fast ASIs, etc. At 3rd it gets a rage-like that grants advantage (without also granting to foes) and grants resist to P/S/B. BTW, that advantage can be to any weapon - finesse, ranged, whatever. Now, it's a bonus action and only lasts until the end of your next turn, so the 3 uses per short rest will only fuel 6 rounds of combat. (Though one of them could have an action surge.)

10th gives another good save, so they have Con, Wis & Str. (And Fighter HPs not to worry about Dex). Plus Indomitable the level before.

15th gives Rapid Strike where you trade advantage on an attack for an extra attack. Mind you there is no limit on how many times you can do it. And you can grant yourself advantage. So you extra attack (2) at 11th can move from three attacks with advantage to SIX regular attacks.

 

[Bacon Bits]

There was another thread that worked to make all classes short rest, and someone in that thread had an idea to make them all long rest. They recommended a simple x3 to all short rest abilities. X3 action surges per long rest, X3 Ki per long rest, whatever it is just multiply by 3. Much easier than the alternative of cutting all long rest mechanics to 1/3. Have you tried this, or is your group bent on running by RAW?

Hm. The group rotates DMs, and most are bent on RAW -- we typically don't allow Unearthed Arcana -- but that does make sense. I'd probably say, "x3/day, but no more than x1/hour." 9 times out of 10 the per hour limit won't matter, but it will keep the Fighter from going super nova with Action Surge.

 

[Lanliss]

Hm. The group rotates DMs, and most are bent on RAW -- we typically don't allow Unearthed Arcana -- but that does make sense. I'd probably say, "x3/day, but no more than x1/hour." 9 times out of 10 the per hour limit won't matter, but it will keep the Fighter from going super nova with Action Surge.

Even if he does, that is all he gets until another rest. Good luck convincing everyone else to rest just because you wanted to do 9 attacks in one turn. Either way you use it, happy to help.