unfortunately not Finally settled, sunder and attacks of opp

[Nail]

"You can use a melee attack to" What do you take that to mean?

Just what it says: Use a melee attack to perform the special attack.

 

[bestone]

Does an aoo not give you a melee attack that, by the text, you could use?

 

[Seeten]

The text doesn't define the Type of Action.

The Table does.

Man A: "Rain is wet."

Man B: "It will rain in one hour."

Question: Will you get wet in one hour?

No, I'll be inside.

 

[Nail]

Does an aoo not give you a melee attack that, by the text, you could use?

Sure, if an AoO was a Standard Action.

 

[Nail]

No, I'll be inside.

Good man.

IOW, before answering a question, you'd best consider all of the facts.

 

[bestone]

The text doesnt say you take a standard action, or use a standard action, does it?

The text states as you said earlier,

Just what it says: Use a melee attack to perform the special attack.

edit : Sunder(mistake)

Aoo gives you a melee attack

So BY THE TEXT you could sunder on an aoo right? right

 

[bestone]

And thus, like bullrush, wouldnt that mean that the text would suggest that you could have another way in which to use it?

If the text was written as a standard action you can, or you use a standard action too, no argument.

But as written, the text lets you use a melee attack to perform that special attack

aoo gives you a melee attack

Bullrush and sunder are both listed on the table as standard actions

Both have text that gives other uses of that special attack

 

[Nail]

So BY THE TEXT you could sunder on an aoo right? right

So long as the table didn't specify the type of action, you'd be right.

 

[bestone]

So what im saying is, the table lists sunder AND bullrush as standard actions

But the text of bull rush still gives it another use

And the text of sunder suggests too, that it could have other uses

And if the text actually said You make a standard action to... then i'd agree with you

But the text doesnt specify that you need a standard action to use a melee attack (and thus would suggest that it could indeed have other uses)

The table, like i've stated lists sunder and bull rush as standard actions, but the standard action bull rush, states in its text it has another use.

Without adding words to the text of sunder, it too, suggests that it could be used
in other ways.

 

[Seeten]

I think the issue here is, the table is clarifying the text, its explaining exactly what the text meant. If you read the text that way, the table and text agree. If you make up your mind before you read the table, then you tend to claim the table is in error.

If the table WAS in fact, in error, they've had 4 years to errata it. Instead all they've done is make claims in articles that you can sunder on an AoO, which suggests they, like me, havent really bothered to check this rule out and fully read it.