unfortunately not Finally settled, sunder and attacks of opp

[IcyCool]

if its unclear, theres a discrepency between table and text *text says you can use a melee attack to do it, but its not listed in table as footnote 7". ERRATA clearly states you go with the text, as its the PRIMARY source.

The melee attack is part of the Sunder action (a standard action as per Table 8-2). The Sunder action is not part of the melee attack (which isn't even an action).

 

[bestone]

Hyp

Tell me this, The text for sunder says

"You can use a melee attack to"

Ignoring anything but the text, do you see this text as ambigous, or can be taken differently by different people?

By that text, When you have a melee attack.......You can use a melee attack to..

so when you'd have a melee attack, you can use that melee attack to strike a ect ect.

Right?

But your saying you must have a standard action to use sunder
i've asked you where, cite a rule, it states your correct on this issue? where it states you ignore the text "and ignore the text is a quote from you"

It doesnt, so are you not making assumptions?

You have no page # or rule reference, and there wont be one.

 

[bestone]

The melee attack is part of the Sunder action (a standard action as per Table 8-2). The Sunder action is not part of the melee attack (which isn't even an action).

Quote me a page # or reference that says you cant use a special attack thats a standard action on your attack of opportunity if the text says you can?

Or are you too, saying "You can use a melee attack to"

Doesnt mean that you can use your melee attack to do it?

the rule for sunder says you can use a melee attack

Your putting words into the rules that say "when you sunder you can use a melee attack"

Those words clearly arent there

 

[IcyCool]

Wheres your rules proof on this?

Wha? PHB. Pg. 139, under the heading of "Standard Actions", it lists the following:

Attack
Cast a Spell
Activate Magic Item
Use Special Ability
Use Total Defense
Start/Complete Full Round Action

A melee attack is part of the "Attack" action.

 

[Nail]

Quote me a page # or reference that says you cant use a special attack thats a standard action on your attack of opportunity if the text says you can?

Wait.

The text says you can use a special attack that's a Standard Action on your AoO? <blink, blink> It does?

 

[bestone]

Wait.

The text says you can use a special attack that's a Standard Action on your AoO? <blink, blink> It does?

The text for sunder says

"You can use a melee attack to"

even if its a standard action, you can use a melee attack to sunder, and you get a melee attack on an attack of opportunity

 

[bestone]

Wha? PHB. Pg. 139, under the heading of "Standard Actions", it lists the following:

Attack
Cast a Spell
Activate Magic Item
Use Special Ability
Use Total Defense
Start/Complete Full Round Action

A melee attack is part of the "Attack" action.

Thats not proof that you ignore the text listed under sunder when you want to perform a sunder.

As i've said, by your logic, you cant use supernatural abilities unless you have a standard action free, which is CLEARLY WRONG. because thier text tells you how to do them.

 

[IcyCool]

Hyp

Tell me this, The text for sunder says

"You can use a melee attack to"

Ignoring anything but the text, do you see this text as ambigous, or can be taken differently by different people?

Clearly, it already has. The text does not clearly state that you can sunder as a melee attack, and neither is it clear that you can sunder as a standard action, hence the use of the table to clarify. You, however, seem to see no ambiguity with the text, and are convinced that "as a melee attack" and "use a melee attack" are identical. If that is the case, then I am afraid we are at an impasse.

 

[Nail]

...
even if its a standard action, you can use a melee attack to sunder, and you get a melee attack on an attack of opportunity

You are arguing that Standard Actions may be used during an AoO???

You're kidding me, right?

 

[Seeten]

No one is going to convince Bestone he is not correct, so I suggest you allow him to feel as he does.

If this wasnt Enworld, I'd think he was trolling, but I know no posters on Enworld troll. Its not done here.