Uniting the Editions, Part 3 - Poll

[Scribble]

I like the psychological effect of saving throws better than passive defenses. The player rolling to shake off an effect gives an illusion of control over your fate; YOU rolled the die, not the DM.

One of the most common things I hear from new 4e players who played earlier editions after getting hit by a power that seems like it would have been a spell in an earlier edition: "Don't I get a saving throw?" And when you tell them no, their opinion of the game goes down, even though mathematically/logically speaking it is the same.

Shrug, I've gotten the opposite in my games. People like the ability to overcome their enemy's defenses rather then be told "He saves" by the DM.

It just makes more sense to me. If you're going to have spell saves, then why not make defender roll ALL defenses?

You could do it either way for all I care, but making attacks functions in a similar way no matter what "type" seems like a change that works just like making bonuses all positive rather then sometimes negative.

 

[Ashilyn]

I am actually genuinely surprised (and pleased!) to see Non-Vancian Magic getting as much love as it is. I have nothing against the traditional Vancian magic style, but my favourite version of the game was third edition, and I always thought the most interesting classes where the ones who used non-traditional power systems - the warlock, the shadowcaster- hell, the whole tome of magic, magic of incarnum, and the prototype powers in the Tome of Battle, and also Pathfinder's Words of Power system. They may not have always been the most mechanically sound (the shadowcaster in particular was a mess without house rules or unofficial errata), but they were fun and different from the norm and I would love to see some more classes that experiment in non-vancian magic schemes like these did.

There's always be a place for vancian magic, it's not going anywhere and I wouldn't really want it too. But I would love some more variety in spellcasting systems.

 

[IanB]

Shrug, I've gotten the opposite in my games. People like the ability to overcome their enemy's defenses rather then be told "He saves" by the DM.

It just makes more sense to me. If you're going to have spell saves, then why not make defender roll ALL defenses?

You could do it either way for all I care, but making attacks functions in a similar way no matter what "type" seems like a change that works just like making bonuses all positive rather then sometimes negative.

Attacking has *always* worked that way, so nobody questions it (and another thing that most players I know seem to love is the experience of rolling that crit themselves so I'm guessing the psychological impact of turning attacks to a 'defender rolls' situation would also be negative.) As for the NPCs rolling their own saves, my experience is that people care most when it is their character at stake.

Basically people aren't really consistent or logical in the way they want things to work, and WotC would be much better served figuring out what scratches those little internal itches rather than trying to create One Perfectly Logical Rule.

 

[MooMan68]

There's always be a place for vancian magic, it's not going anywhere and I wouldn't really want it too. But I would love some more variety in spellcasting systems.

I agree.
As a matter of fact, rather than giving fighters nonsensical encounter and daily abilities I'd like to go the other way and see a mage that had nothing but at-will spells, yet somehow still remained balanced.
Probably using a completely different spell list.
Something for all the Harry Potter fans out there

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I voted for:

Magic Missiles that Never Miss
Morale Rules
Racial Level Limits
Saving Throws
System Shock
Vancian Magic
Weapons Versus Armor Table

Some of it I could care less about, but:
Action Points
Healing Surges
Lots of Bonus Types
Prestige Classes/Kits
And probably Skills

as core will put 5e on my do not buy list.

 

[Warunsun]

We haven't heard much about Healing Surges from these initial talks. I am thinking they will be staying in some form or another. Perhaps they will have a new name or just be inferred from the healing system as a whole. I did read something about Epic Destinies being "done right". We have heard "at-wills" being thrown about but also heard lots of anti-power talk. I am wondering if perhaps at-wills will be called at-will spell-like abilities to make them sound more "old school". I think also they are going to use the new level-based class feature system to replace the Utility powers.

It is entirely possible the whole 5E is a lot closer to 4E than folks realize. It could be mostly a jargon change and utilizing nostalgic sounding terms.

 

[Lanefan]

Sad to see so little love for System Shock; it's an excellent mechanic, and because it uses d% rather than d20 the variance between levels or requirements can be made much more granular.

I went with mostly old-school options except THAC0; I've been DMing 1e (or close) for almost 28 years now and still have yet to figure out THAC0, mostly because I don't care what hits AC 0 unless the target's AC is in fact 0! I also skipped weapon-vs.-armour as it just gets in the way of simplicity.

Morale rules - or at least some sort of guidelines for morale both for henches and monsters - would be nice.

Surprised not to see "Resurrection Survival" in the poll, I'd have voted 'yes' for that too.

Lanefan

 

[Invisible Stalker]

Action Points: I'd like it in some form, one can of Popeye spinach each session
Critical Fumbles: and usually a humorous effect when it happens too
Critical Hits: keep them, players love the "home run"
Exotic Weapons: no interest
Feats: resigned to them
Gender based ability maximums: no comment
Healing surges: meh
Kits: double meh
Lots of bonus types: the fewer the better
Magic Missile that never misses: in my 5E wizard's spellbook already
Morale rules: bring them back and reaction rolls too
Non Vancian magic: for the lesser casting classes
PCs creating magic items: some lower level magic items
Prestige classes: not for me, but for others
Racial level limits: yes if non humans get a lot more goodies
Saving throws: yes, especially the save or die variety
Skills: resigned to them
System shock: yes and bring back resurrection rolls too
THAC0: I double dog dare WOTC to include it
Vancian magic: for wizard players, where I suspect the most support for Vancian magic is
Weapon speed factors: not an option I need
Weapons vs. Armor: ditto

 

[Elf Witch]

I am a sad gamer today. It really bothers me as a female player to see that people still want to use old fashioned not needed gender rules which we all pretty much know that means making female PCs weaker then male PCs.

I would like saves to be in the hand of the players like in 3E. I like critical hits even on PCs ( with the option of only named BBEG being able to do it as supplemental rule.

I like critical fumbles I use them in my game with the caveat that you are not injuring yourself more along the lines of dropping your weapon, breaking your bow string, losing a turn. I also have a roll that allows you to recover from the fumble.

Magic Missiles should always hit I have seen them save a lower level party's hides and at lower levels they make the mages more fun to play and they don't do major damage at higher levels.

I am fine with both Vancian and non vancian magic being available.

I don't want to see a game that has themes, kits and prestige classes pick one. I see to much complication if all three are involved.

I want to see skills but I would like to see them tweaked from the way they are done in 3E no more cross class skills. Why can't a fighter pick a lock or play an instrument or have knowledge history. I would like to see all synergy bonus gone and ways to fail a skill even gourmet cooks burn the roast now and then.

 

[Sebastrd]

I am a sad gamer today. It really bothers me as a female player to see that people still want to use old fashioned not needed gender rules which we all pretty much know that means making female PCs weaker then male PCs.

You should check out their addendum then. They apparently (and obviously, IMO) never considered gender rules a serious option.