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Universal Constants (Umbran, Pbartender)
- Thread starter Michael Morris
- Start date
Hm. Much of what ought to be said already has been said. I will back up a few bits in summary...
The overall answer is - not much, really. The question of where the constants come from has been asked for a lot more than 5 years. It is only in the recent past that theories that might address some of the questiosn have come up. Unfortunately, the theories all have nigh-intractable math. And I don't know any of them that make testable predictions.
Yes, a few of the constants have been viewed with a critical eye towards exactly how "constant" they are. Mind you, if they aren't constant, somewhere behind them is something that paramaterizes how they change with time and/or conditions. So, if G changes with time, then there's constants hidden back in the equation for G.
To say that masses might be determined by interactions with Higgs fields/bosons doesn't really dodge the constant question, either. Because there are constants that determine the strength of that interaction, and effectively those would set the mass. But why are those constants what they are? Nobody knows.
It really is a lot like mathematics - just as a logic system needs axioms, universes need "givens". Why does our universe have the particular set of given values that it does?
Consider - a hypothesis is not a real scientific theory unless it can make testable predictions. Unless we find ourselves in a position where we can either observe or create other universes, the only tests for any such theory are going to be highly indirect, if they can be done at all. Until such time as we can step outside our universe, we may not know exactly why it is what it is.
The overall answer is - not much, really. The question of where the constants come from has been asked for a lot more than 5 years. It is only in the recent past that theories that might address some of the questiosn have come up. Unfortunately, the theories all have nigh-intractable math. And I don't know any of them that make testable predictions.
Yes, a few of the constants have been viewed with a critical eye towards exactly how "constant" they are. Mind you, if they aren't constant, somewhere behind them is something that paramaterizes how they change with time and/or conditions. So, if G changes with time, then there's constants hidden back in the equation for G.
To say that masses might be determined by interactions with Higgs fields/bosons doesn't really dodge the constant question, either. Because there are constants that determine the strength of that interaction, and effectively those would set the mass. But why are those constants what they are? Nobody knows.
It really is a lot like mathematics - just as a logic system needs axioms, universes need "givens". Why does our universe have the particular set of given values that it does?
Consider - a hypothesis is not a real scientific theory unless it can make testable predictions. Unless we find ourselves in a position where we can either observe or create other universes, the only tests for any such theory are going to be highly indirect, if they can be done at all. Until such time as we can step outside our universe, we may not know exactly why it is what it is.
Rel said:
Well, let us loog at that more closely...
Given:
The Speed of Light = c
Umbran does have a job, so he has a bit of disposable income.
Umbran is married less than a year.
GenCon overlaps with Pennsic.
Umbran's wife has never been to Pennsic...
I think we can all do the math there
I never had enough money to travel to cons outside the Boston area. I would love to go to GenCon at least once, to see what it is like. But this just won't be the year.
The speed of light in a vacuum is the velocity it is because photons can't go any faster.
Michael Morris
First Post
mythusmage said:
<4-year-old> Why? </4-year-old>
mythusmage said:
Yes, while MM puts in in a voice that makes it seem funny, he has a point. Your answer is a dodge - it doesn't tell you why they can't go faster (or, in fact, slower). The speed of light in vacuum is always the same, never more, never less. Why? Ultimately, we don't know the answer. So far, it just is.
Which is why being like a 4-year-old is occasionally useful in the sciences
Michael Morris
First Post
Umbran said:Yes, while MM puts in in a voice that makes it seem funny, he has a point. Your answer is a dodge - it doesn't tell you why they can't go faster (or, in fact, slower). The speed of light in vacuum is always the same, never more, never less. Why? Ultimately, we don't know the answer. So far, it just is.
Which is why being like a 4-year-old is occasionally useful in the sciences
Also, the ability to say "I don't know" is a sure sign of wisdom.
fuindordm
Adventurer
Umbran said:
Yep. Physicists are all in a dither over this one because it would reduce twelve arbitrary constants (the lepton and quark masses) down to a single arbitrary constant (the strength of the Higgs coupling). It's a little progress, but doesn't take us any farther philosophically.
Ben
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