Unpopular opinions go here

[Lanefan]

Never the smart way to bet. That's the mindset that leads to all kinds of people who think they're the lone investigator who's seen the true situation. Go through life with that approach and the chances are what you've found is a fast track to being seen as a crank--because most likely you are.

Oh, I dunno - some people are simply adept in seeing the flaw or glitch in things that others overlook or ignore, or at thinking outside the box and coming up with a different answer than most others would.

When everyone else sees it different, the first person you should be examining is always you.

The first thing you should be examining is what you're seeing, to make sure you've really got it right and that you haven't overlooked some key element that's making everyone else see it differently.

Self-examination only leads to self-criticism and then self-doubt, which doesn't often get anyone anywhere.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It is worth pointing out you're using AD&D, this is much more pronounced in 5E. My problem is the players won't do that. They will suicide every character with less than amazing stats until they luck into a character with amazing stats. Effectively stopping the game until they get what they want, optimal stats. So, instead of fighting that fight for the hundredth time, or booting players until someone is finally reasonable, just skip the headache and go with a standard array.

I'm sorry you have unreasonable players.

 

[Lanefan]

You're skipping over the Monty Python levels of absurdity this inevitably entails. The game can't progress while the players keep killing themselves.

Sure it can. If players A and B keep having their characters die while C, D, and E have them survive, then in theory before long the characters of C, D, and E should be a level or two ahead of whatever A and B are bringing in this week. Meanwhile you're still running the same adventure you would have been anyway.

I don't want to sit there and wait while the min-maxers find inventive ways to kill off their own characters so they get to roll another set of stats. Lather, rinse, repeat until they land on a set that's acceptable to them...20-30 minutes later.

20-30 minutes? I'm talking about a process that might go on for numerous sessions. The slow-motion funnel IME tends to last for the first couple of adventures, after which something resembling a coherent party might emerge...or not, if they're keen on party infighting.

Or, have them all roll characters in the session 0 and let them just keep rolling until they get what they want.

Nope. Unless a character fails my "DM prerogative" rule (i.e. it has no stat higher than 13 and-or the average of all 6 stats is less than 10.0) you're bound to play what you roll. And if it's gonna die it kinda has to get to its first combat first, and who knows - it might get lucky and survive.

Now if a player has a character just jump off the first cliff it sees, then so be it; but you're under no obligation to get its replacement into play right away...

 

[Micah Sweet]

The fact I want to use them in the game doesn't mean I want to use them setting up characters.



These are not in the least related to being saddled with what the dice will give you. I've run games for nearly a half century now that didn't use random character generation, and I never had a problem setting the proper borders of what characters in the campaign was about. So this is either irrelevant or a straw man, and I'm not going to try and guess which.



Yeah, but that's you. In many cases, in many games, they're supposed to be anything but that.

I'm with @Lanefan here. The whole, "PCs are special and precious" thing does not work for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're skipping over the Monty Python levels of absurdity this inevitably entails. The game can't progress while the players keep killing themselves. I don't want to sit there and wait while the min-maxers find inventive ways to kill off their own characters so they get to roll another set of stats. Lather, rinse, repeat until they land on a set that's acceptable to them...20-30 minutes later.

Or, have them all roll characters in the session 0 and let them just keep rolling until they get what they want. At that point, why bother?

Just skip it. Give them a standard array and wash your hands of the whole thing.

Shame you can't put those unreasonable players you've got together with the bad DMs so many posters around here are worried about.

 

[Guest 7042500]

It depends on edition. It n OD&D the only difference between a fighter with a strength of 9 and a strength of 18 is a 10% xp bonus. High stats just don't get you that much, they mostly suggest a possible shape for the character.

Other editions work differently. I got frustrated as hell in a Pathfinder game because with a charisma of 8 I had a hard time even buying things in a shop, and hiring a stable boy was almost impossible.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, I dunno - some people are simply adept in seeing the flaw or glitch in things that others overlook or ignore, or at thinking outside the box and coming up with a different answer than most others would.

The first thing you should be examining is what you're seeing, to make sure you've really got it right and that you haven't overlooked some key element that's making everyone else see it differently.

Self-examination only leads to self-criticism and then self-doubt, which doesn't often get anyone anywhere.

Yup. To do other is just assuming popularity equals being right.

 

[Umbran]

WotC attempt to "cancel" legacy D&D and tossing woke sauce over everything they touch is despicable.

Mod Note:
Create a new account, and this is what you choose for your one post?

Please find somewhere else to take your vitriol.

 

[Guest 7042500]

Shame you can't put those unreasonable players you've got together with the bad DMs so many posters around here are worried about.

...I'm starting to like you...

 

[overgeeked]

Other editions work differently. I got frustrated as hell in a Pathfinder game because with a charisma of 8 I had a hard time even buying things in a shop, and hiring a stable boy was almost impossible.

That sounds like a referee problem.