(Update) DM Decision: Player mistake- what would you do

[DonTadow]

Alternatively, it could be that she realizes you are using the "art" of fudging die rolls (and outcomes) and wants to see just how far you'll go to preserve her character....

....In which case, you should kill her and be done with it.


RC

Sadly I think you're right here. To a point. She posted two weeks ago that "All dms have a system. and we just have to figure out the dms system. " However, in the last three levels of a dungeon I tend to roll all die in the open. Yeah, abandoning my theory on fudging because I want the pcs to know that I am not pulling any punches.

 

[Arnwyn]

never any visitors?
never gets drunk?
never considers the possibility of confusion?
doesn't have pets?

etc...

My immediate guess to the above would be "not likely". What are we talking about here - a residential house, or an ancient magic item disposal location?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Sadly I think you're right here. To a point. She posted two weeks ago that "All dms have a system. and we just have to figure out the dms system. " However, in the last three levels of a dungeon I tend to roll all die in the open. Yeah, abandoning my theory on fudging because I want the pcs to know that I am not pulling any punches.

I have known players (I have been the player) who try to "test" DM fudging by doing ridiculous things in order to see what happens. The easiest way to deal with that is to simply allow the consequences of ridiculous actions to stand.

As far as your player rolling up a new character, I would imagine that your other players know what you would find acceptable, yes? Pick a player and make him help her set up her new character. If she keeps killing 'em off, let the players rotate. Sooner or later they will deal with the problem!

Just my 2 cents.


RC

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

My immediate guess to the above would be "not likely". What are we talking about here - a residential house, or an ancient magic item disposal location?

Well, we are talking about something that takes up the entire width of a corridor (as in, the middle of a hallway that presumably leads from somewhere to somwhere):

One player ironically the rogue, travels down a hallway and finds a large pentagon drawn in crimson ink on the floor. It takes up the whole hallway.

 

[merelycompetent]

Delurking for this one. My apologies if I come across as a total newbie for this first post

I do apologize for calling her stupid, as I don't believe she is stupid, but the decisions she made was not one that seemed liek a good one given the circumstances.

OT, but comments about an individual in a publicly accessable forum can come back to bite the poster.

5 games in she did a spell and i asked her the save, she told me, the spell didnt have a save, none of her spells have saves, she designed them so they wouldnt...<snip> When I asked her, why would she think that she could cast 10d6 fireballs and dominates on enemies and they not get a saving throw, she said she must have read the book wrong. When i asked her why didn't she ask me about it, she said "I hoped you wouldn't notice it, I figured it was a bit broken but I didnt think you'd mind." <snipped the rest>

Based on what you've written in this thread, and a few others I've lurked in, you have a problem player who is making the game unfun for you as DM. The problem is compounded by the fact that this player's SO is a wonderful player, who makes the game more enjoyable for you as DM. Judging from what you've posted, it seems to me that you've forgotten that you are DMing to have fun, too.

My first suggestion would be to boot the problem player. It sounds like she's making the game less fun for you, causing you hours of extra work and headaches, and generally being DM unfriendly. You have nixed that suggestion - and it is perfectly OK for you to do so. It's your game.

My second suggestion is to make a new table rule: "All characters must be submitted to the DM at least four days before the next play session. The DM will review the character and spend those four days working out any questions with the player. You cannot play a character that has not been pre-approved by the DM." This will give you several advantages - 1) You're not treating the problem player any different than the others, 2) You get a copy of each player's character(s) to file away in case someone forgets theirs, and 3) you'll head off future headaches with your problem player. If the problem player shows up without a pre-approved character, offer her a deck of cards to play with while the rest of you play the game.

My third suggestion ties in with the second - another table rule: "At every level advancement, each player must submit a fresh copy of their character for the DM's records at least two days before the next play session. The level advancement is not considered 'done', meaning you can't use the new skills, hit points, spells, etc., until the DM gets his copy. The submitted copy must include all magic items, equipment, property and so forth." This gives you the opportunity to review each character and let the player know if they've made an error totaling up saves, attack bonuses, and so forth. It also gives you an opportunity to head off your problem player again before another difficulty crops up. Finally, you are perfectly within your rights to say to the player, "I'm sorry, but that ability wasn't listed on your last character update, and I have no record of giving it to you, so it isn't allowed."

My fourth suggestion is: Take back control of your game. You have a problem player who has taken control of your game away from you. You have a problem player who is causing you to waste many, many hours of your free time (time that could be spent making the game more fun for the players who actually appreciate your efforts and return them to make the game more fun for you) dealing with rude behavior and thoughtlessness. Think about what you could have accomplished for your game if you hadn't needed to waste all these hours venting your frustration and ask for advice on dealing with just this one player.

The basic idea here is to limit the problem player's ability to cause problems without stepping on the role-playing. It won't eliminate the problem player's ability to cause trouble during play - witness leaping into a pentagram without checking for traps - but it will reduce your overall headaches with this player.

As for the family trouble she's having (IIRC), you can introduce these new requirements as a way of helping *her* out, to make the character creation process easier, and help smooth over play more.

I hope this helps.

 

[helium3]

Uhhh. Seems like the obvious solution is that the "Time Lords" either put her in the shiney happy matrix place or at the least retrieve her from the hellish garbage disposal to question her.

That is, if you want to "re-insert" her.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Playing with players who don't want to play the type of games I want to run, action adventure games with a more beer and pretzels feel than amateur theater, then I let them keep coming and not having fun until they start to cause problems for the fun of others. Then they are asked why they are coming. If its just to have something to do to get away from the wife for a few hours then I inform them I'm not changing the game as then I'm not going to have fun and maybe they should adapt or find soemthing that they enjoy to do. Nothing wrong with booting a player.

 

[sithian]

I am sorry that I could not read all of the tread; but still the main thing seems to be you can not have her leave the game and still you want to make her pay for the stupid action she did without having to kill the character too; so that she will not create a new character.

In my play experience these kind of situations are mostly handled like:

1- Make the character crippled; like she has lost the use of her thumb therefore gains a -6 penalty on all checks that require her to use her hands(attack roll thieving skills etc) and tell her that these can be cured by only a miracle cast by a figure that is like the main villain in your storyline.

2-Make the character into a ghost, and after streneous research she finds our pc's bringing them some foresight; but this research has cost her some xp (you know dealing with demons and devils is always risky and she is a level 1 ghost (level equivelant 6). Also after this penalize her further by saying that although she is a ghost she can not use all abilities of ghosts and she will need to learn how to use them slowly...

3- If the person who does these stupid things is someone who is really stupid in real life as well go for the padding DM approach which is just make her amnesiac you know washed up a shore somewhere or fallen from grace... because the PC's know her there will be no hustle to create a background that would suit. (Also makes a great game trying to solve the mystery what happened to her)

4-Another way we treat such incidents is by penalizing the whole group; although it might seem unfair to penalize the whole group for her mistake this approach gives the best results. Such as one time one of our players (who did stupid things a lot) sent a cone of cold to a raging combat; killing me the cleric and damaging our fighter greatly, by our luck I stabilized and our fighter and rogue cleared the combat, whereas our mage helped(!?). And we ended the game there. Next game after playing like half an hour we had a combat in which the other party killed our mage by using a finger of death spell we won the combat. DM told us that we will have a break so that the mage can create a new character... So we waited like 5 hours without playing so that they could come up with a character and we played an hour and that was it. Basically everyone was so pissed at our stupid guy that he never played another mage nor did a stupid thing( he used to ask us if he could do anything first ) well although this is an extreme example I think it conveys my point.

Well that is my two cents, but still there is a saying in our games "DM is always right!" so you do not have to make people understand how and why something happens... It sometimes just does

Cheers

 

[DonTadow]

Well thought I'd give an update on what happened. During that week, after the thread, I decided not to talk to her again about it. Two days later, on my forum, the player left a sarcastic comment insulting a favorite NPC of the older party members. Three of them emailed me and talked about how frustrated they were with the person. The general consensus was that she commented not really knowing or observing the facts of the mystery. Her suspicsiouns were just, but the way she worded it made her seem as though she was being sarcastic and insulting to the other players. As previously stated, I've been use to blowing off some of her minor offenses for the love of the group and game, and this time i sent her a more detailed email. I explained to her that several players were upset with her last remark, and her previous decisons and i recommended that she should take a little more time and review her actions before she does them because some may see them as offensive.

She sent me an apology (as usual) and wrote another message on the board that was a (i'm sorry but) type of apology. I called her, and told her that she didnt have to send an email, or apogize to anyone. Just try to be civil to the other players. The next day it was a change, she wrote some real positive stuff on the board and reformed her wording so it was helpful instead of sarcastic. I assumed all was good. That Sunday she didn't show up at all. Her husband was there, but he now had to leave two hours earlier. (i'm guessing his punishment). Thsi Sunday she didnt show up. After game i got an email with her officially withdrawing from the campaign.

Sad thing is, I thought everything was good and at a point where at least for the times everyone was getting along. I wrote some more stuff up for her character and everything. I even had some feats she could have tried to help her be more useful in combat. Oh well. Alls well that ends well.