Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Bjorn Doneerson]

I Still can't get on the WotC D&D boards.

As for Lucifer and Satan, I once saw somewhere the 7 deadly sin associated with Fallen Angels. Lucifer represented pride, and Satan represented wrath.

 

[Knight Otu]

I still haven't seen a picture of a (Perry Rhodan) Cosmocrat or Chaotarch. What do they look like?

I think there is a picture of Taurec in his human form somewhere, but I might be mistaken. Otherwise, mostly descripions of their manifestations in our universe.

I'll see if I can dig them up.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Where were we...

I was actually rereading through my Encyclopedia of the Occult earlier and it actually associates Lucifer MorningStar with Ormazd and Satan with Ahriman.

Lately I have been considering that any future work on the Persian Pantheon would detail Ahriman and Ormazd as Greater Gods of Divine Rank 17. Asmodeus would be an Aspect (freed Avatar) of Ahriman, since Asmodeus is a perversion of the being Aeshma Deva; a creation of Ahriman.

As ever, this interferes with my cosmogony somewhat.

If Uberdeities are the powers immediately beyond deities then I believe they would reside within our multiverse. The reason being again partly because mythology tells us such beings exist and additionally that

So Uberdeities are the cosmic embodiments of forces, philosophies and places as represented within our multiverse.

A planet is roughly akin to a planar layer in cosmic terms so it is an easy assumption to determine that beyond Greater Gods are the cosmic 'life forces' of planets or planar layers.

eg. Gaia is the life force of Earth. Surtur is the life force of Muspelheim. Ojukalazogadit is the life force of an Abyssal layer (read Gord the Rogue for that last one). I am sure there are many other plausible corelations, the seven Seraphim to the Seven Heavens perhaps*.

*In occult lore there are more than sven heavens of course! Maybe I'll write about them in the IH.

Okay time for chat night.

To be continued...

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Hi Melkor mate!



I have been giving the Epic Spells some scrutiny and I think the major problem is that its too easy to increase save DCs.

In my opinion it should be:

+1 DC = +1 Spellcraft DC
+2 DC = +4
+3 DC = +9
+4 DC = +16
etc.

I'm not sure if this should also be applied to Spell Resistance as well - I'll have to look into it more.

As for the items themselves. An item that bestowed +100 to Spellcraft would cost 2 million gp (1 million GP & 40,000 XP to create). Essentially this can effectively mimic a 10,000XP spellcasting cost.

However, to fully make use of the +100 Spellcraft DC remember that you have to research the spell - and the more powerful the spell the higher the costs. Also if you somehow lose the Item you will no longer be able to cast the spell! So I'm not sure if this should be a cause for concern (after my above addendum anyway).

Sorry, but I don`t understand your reasoning. If anything Epic Spells are too weak. Plus 1d6 of damage per +2 DC? Spellcaster using Maximize spell can double spell`s damage every 6 levels. And look at spells in ELH, for example Pestilence. Wow, at a DC of over 100 you can destroy a small rural community( something a 10th level Wizard can easily do) by inflicting it with disease that isn`t even contagious! Don`t you think that Epic Level Spellcasters should be able to create diseases that would be a threat for entire kingdoms? Oh, and don`t you think that Epic Spellcasting makes Clerics too powerful compared to arcane casters?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Melkor mate!

Sorry, but I don`t understand your reasoning.

By simply applying a -10,000 XP expenditure you could create a spell with a +50 Save DC. With Base 10 +10 (epic spell) you have a starting base DC of 70 (not yet counting your ability score bonus and likely feats).

At DC 89 you have automatically defeated any being within either the Epic Level Handbook or Deities & Demigods.

Personally I am of the opinion that maybe they have dicked about with the magic system in general far too much. Its very easy in 3rd Ed. to get 'lost at sea' with regards high-level spellcasting.

If anything Epic Spells are too weak. Plus 1d6 of damage per +2 DC? Spellcaster using Maximize spell can double spell`s damage every 6 levels.

If you stack Empower you could double damage every 4 levels.

And look at spells in ELH, for example Pestilence. Wow, at a DC of over 100 you can destroy a small rural community (something a 10th level Wizard can easily do) by inflicting it with disease that isn`t even contagious!

Actually that spell would utterly decimate a town as far as I can see.

I imagine you could up the effects to make the disease contagious...?

Don`t you think that Epic Level Spellcasters should be able to create diseases that would be a threat for entire kingdoms?

Anything is possible, the only question is the level of power needed to achieve a certain endeavour.

Oh, and don`t you think that Epic Spellcasting makes Clerics too powerful compared to arcane casters?

The general consensus is that Clerics are the most powerful class (pre-epic) anyway. So no big change I think.

Off the top of my head perhaps Clerics should gain access to a new spell level every 3 levels (rather than every two?). Though I don't advocate making such changes at this stage in 3rd Ed.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Concerning Clerics, I simply dropped Hit Dice to 1d6, it makes no sense for them to be better in fighting than Rogues, especially with all buffing spells they get.
But I don`t like the fact that Epic Cleric gets all spellcasting abilities of Wizards + Heal and Life Seed.

 

[Anubis]

The problem is that the power is too weak, but making that little amount of power go very far is very easy using the current rules.

I would say that a caster would be limited in his or her ability to increase DCs and such. Simply rules that you can only put as many modifiers on an Epic Spell as you have ranks in the related Knowledge skill.

 

[Upper_Krust]

You never did finish that infernal rant...

Hi all!

About time I returned to the question of evil.

Other plausible Elder Deities include the Greek Titans; perhaps those six represent the six layers of Carceri (Tartarus). I discuss a few others in the Immortals Handbook.

More ancient than the Elder Deities are the Old Ones. Each represents the embodiment of an entire plane; be it a philosophy or a force.

The lower planar deities are also associated with the seven sins; the upper planar deities reflect the seven virtues (these beings are sometimes refered to as ArchAngels).

The Nine Hells embody the sin of Pride, the once ArchAngel Lucifer Morningstars fall created the hells. His serpentine form is the personification of Lawful Evil. Lucifer's Avatar (83 HD, Divine Rank 16) ruled the Hells before being deposed and imprisoned by the other Archdevils now tentatively led by Asmodeus (49HD, Divine Rank 8); himself the Avatar of the Persian greater-deity Ahriman).

Beyond the Old Ones lie the Proto-deities; incarnate forces of the multiverse, among them the embodiment of Matter (and by extension evil), known as Aratron; Tharizdun; or the Elder Elemental God.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I thought gods were immune to being imprisoned?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Cheiromancer mate!

I thought gods were immune to being imprisoned?

They are immune to the spell 'imprisonment' but not the act of being imprisoned.