Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Greetings!

Hey Simon!

So using my system (which is rightfully your system) we get:

20th = 18
21st = 9
22nd = 4
23rd = 2
24th = 1
25th-34th = +1 per level.

Total: 44 characters 20th-level or above.

Which, taking Thrinians; Albines and the Chaos Wastes into account is just about accurate don't you think!?

I don't think there are 44 level 20+ types on Ea unless you're including nonhumans (demons, dragons etc) with CRS 20+. North Ea is much more high-powered than south Ea anyway, especially the bits you've detailed!
I think the distribution over level 20 is also a bit flatter than your list, but certainly similar - a cluster around levels 21-22 then fairly flat distribution up to around level 31.


How hes still alive (or rather dead) is beyond me.

Because you haven't killed him yet? Of course Marradin has been around for centuries (since the original Farsorland campaign) and is clever & sneaky!


Tell me you have read those Hellboy Graphic novels I lent you (they have Baba Yaga in them)!?

Haven't read them yet.


Another dude on my hit list and revenge is going to be sweet! I'm going to pimp slap that whole Mongali Pantheon of Ancestral Spirits and then roll over that 100,000+ mortal Mongali Army like a colossal lawnmower. That'll teach 'em!

More like 200,000. Well, good luck!



Hurrah for the Thrinians! Fight the good fight! No surrender!

Interestingly, Tallarn/Matt's new PC for the game is a Thrinian cleric who saved the other PCs last Sunday - at 7th level he almost single-handedly defeated 2 10th, 1 9th, 1 7th & 1 6th level NPCs, after they'd defeated the rest of the PC group!
He has a Transmuter cohort who's a member of the Blue Light Society that reveres Ksarul - bit of an 'odd couple' there!



Emperor Ulfius soon enough when the revolution comes!


We'll see! Imarr has been at peace for over a year (it's now M2 2738 YE) - a major war between Ulfius' Thrinists and Tarkane's forces would be nice.


You should - its fantastic! I take it Jamz eventually returned it!?

Yup - might watch it today.

 

[S'mon]

BTW I've put up a Word-format version of the Ea timeline at:
http://www.geocities.com/s.t.newman/EaTime.doc
Which is a lot easier to read than the previous one, and contains some new stuff.

Incidentally Craig I'm still waiting to get Ulfius' stat sheet - if you can't find it I'll use the default array from the DMG with a couple of magic item changes (Ioun stone +1 level & the Bloodhammer).

 

[S'mon]

On Tallarn's suggestion I've posted my Borderlands campaign saga to the Story Hour board at:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28405

 

[Gez]

Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

Bonsoir mes ami Gez et Blacksad (you see I am okay on the simple stuff)

I similarly started in German and English. Now I estimate I'm reasonnably skilled at internet-based conversations in English, but in German, I'm ashamed I hadn't got past this point.

If I'm reading you right (?) there are two mistakes but I may be able to speak the language without too many problems (which I can assure you is definately not yet the case!)

I was saying that these two minor mistakes would not be noticed in spoken language.

Le monde est mal fait: it's easier to write than to speak in a foreign tongue (since there are no problem of accent and pronounciation), but the errors are more visible (and longer lasting).

Maybe telepathy would solve this problem, but sadly I don't master this communication medium.

I definately need more studying.

Nothing beats practicing, though. My best English lessons were provided by playing Ultima Underworld 2 (and having a good ol' big dictionnary nearby). Computer games have make me learn more English words than my teachers.
There's a French story hour (in the story hour forum) that could be a good start.
Here's da link: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3352

This is something I've worked on a lot, I've found that the following works well.

1. NPC classes: These make up 99% of the population, around 90% commoners and mostly 1st level. The other 9% are Experts, Warriors, Aristocrats, Adepts etc. Of this 9%, 75% are 1st level, 12.5% 2nd, 6.25% 3rd, etc (1/2 at each higher level, round fractions up or down to fit the total pop).

2.PC classes: 1% of population, or less in peaceful areas. Of these 50% are 1st level, 25% 2nd, 12.5% 3rd, up through level 10. Of those levels 10+, there are 1/3 as many 10th as 9th*, then the next level has 3/4 as many, every +2 levels halfs the number. This gives a decent but not overwhelming number of high-level PC class characters.


*9th is a break-point, it's where CR 1 encounters no longer give XP, so there are far fewer 10th than 9th.

I tend to estimate it's a bit too much on the downside.

I consider commoners and warriors to be actually apprentice levels of expert and fighter. In other words, there's no such thing like a 20-th level commoner -- or even a 2nd level one. He'll become Expert instead.

PC classes are quite common actually, rather around 12% than 1. The 1% is for "Elite" characters (max first HD, better than average stats), but not all PC class are elite.

I found out I can't decently have several organizations like mages academy or fighter guild if the concerned niche of the population is less than 1 per 1000... And when you add prestige classes to the mix, things begin to get weird.


It's even worse in high-powered settings like the Forgotten Realms.

I try to have roughly 1/3 level 1, 1/3 level 2-4, 1/6 level 5-9, and the rest from 10 to 20.


To give some food for thoughts, here's an article written by Sean K. Reynolds: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/theoryaboutpeasants.html

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

To give some food for thoughts, here's an article written by Sean K. Reynolds: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/theoryaboutpeasants.html

I've seen that article but it doesn't make much sense to me - Commoners are not equipped to survive CR1 challenges; you'd have to say that CR1 for a commoner is a much easier challenge than CR1 for a PC, which goes against the spirit (and letter) of the XP rules IMO.

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

I consider commoners and warriors to be actually apprentice levels of expert and fighter. In other words, there's no such thing like a 20-th level commoner -- or even a 2nd level one. He'll become Expert instead.

PC classes are quite common actually, rather around 12% than 1. The 1% is for "Elite" characters (max first HD, better than average stats), but not all PC class are elite.

You've essentially replaced the NPC classes with non-elite PC types. I do wonder how the population supports 12% clerics, wizards, bards & all, it seems very high. Are your populations very small? Do you have huge numbers of level 16+ NPCs?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Greetings!

Hey Simon.

I don't think there are 44 level 20+ types on Ea unless you're including nonhumans (demons, dragons etc) with CRS 20+. North Ea is much more high-powered than south Ea anyway, especially the bits you've detailed!

The bits I detailed were fully in line with what you had already outlined regarding power levels.

In fact if anything the areas you detailed were far more grandiose: Or are you forgetting the Samurai champion of Demogorgon and his cohorts. The Demon Lord Nekir*. Jorak Fellblade. etc.

*R.I.P. scumbag

I think the distribution over level 20 is also a bit flatter than your list, but certainly similar - a cluster around levels 21-22 then fairly flat distribution up to around level 31.

Isn't that what I suggested above though?

Karzalin is 34th and Vantor (converted) is 38th I think.

Because you haven't killed him yet? Of course Marradin has been around for centuries (since the original Farsorland campaign) and is clever & sneaky!

Last I remember Marradin was 28th-level. Not that I try to keep tabs on these guys of course.

*Hellboy Graphic Novels* Haven't read them yet.

Theres just no educating some people!

To quote Tom Cruise in the movie Jerry Maguire:

"Help me help you!"

More like 200,000. Well, good luck!

Okay so it'll take a few extra rounds.

Interestingly, Tallarn/Matt's new PC for the game is a Thrinian cleric who saved the other PCs last Sunday - at 7th level he almost single-handedly defeated 2 10th, 1 9th, 1 7th & 1 6th level NPCs, after they'd defeated the rest of the PC group!
He has a Transmuter cohort who's a member of the Blue Light Society that reveres Ksarul - bit of an 'odd couple' there!

I just hope theres no friction come the revolution!

We'll see! Imarr has been at peace for over a year (it's now M2 2738 YE) - a major war between Ulfius' Thrinists and Tarkane's forces would be nice.

We're lawful good though - we need an excuse to *cough* assassinate Tarkane.

Where are all the evil organisations when you need one!? I bet when Ulfius becomes Emperor we will be knee deep in assassination attempts!

Evil. You just can't trust it!

*The Storm riders* Yup - might watch it today.

Watch it when it gets dark - remember the difficulty we had trying to watch the film on your monitor during the daytime!

Incidentally Craig I'm still waiting to get Ulfius' stat sheet - if you can't find it I'll use the default array from the DMG with a couple of magic item changes (Ioun stone +1 level & the Bloodhammer).

I'll have a look for it. Default array my ***.

 

[Xeriar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

Originally posted by S'mon
You've essentially replaced the NPC classes with non-elite PC types. I do wonder how the population supports 12% clerics, wizards, bards & all, it seems very high. Are your populations very small? Do you have huge numbers of level 16+ NPCs?

Well, considering the support rate is going to be 75% farmers in most reasonable campaigns, 10% PC classes certainly isn't out of the question.

The 90% farmers statistic would be for a 1200's era or other dark ages campaign. It's not just because it takes so many to support so few, but it takes organization and planning.

And not-stupid rulers. Not stupid rulers are important. Stupid rulers would let their cities starve amidst the most bountiful harvests ever simply because they didn't know how to get people to bring food to the city.

It also depends on the crop and the quality of land you're on. Growing maize and rice can be very effective.

Italy made it to 40% urban around 1500 or so. I would think that centuries of work on the land would make that kind of ratio more pervasive.

Especially when any nation can put any amount of water they want whereever they want. That helps

 

[Gez]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

You've essentially replaced the NPC classes with non-elite PC types.

Roughly. I do have experts, adepts and aristocrats (although a bit modified, so that they could be seen as near PC-class in power -- for example, experts regularly get bonus feats they can use for Skill Focus and Greater Skill Focus, so that a talented potter is not necessarily a 11-HD character).

I do wonder how the population supports 12% clerics, wizards, bards & all, it seems very high. Are your populations very small? Do you have huge numbers of level 16+ NPCs?

First, PC classes includes class with less expensive requirements than clerics and especially wizards. Druids and rangers don't need to be supported by the population (to the contrary, they can help a population support itslef, especially the druids), monks need few things...

Secondly, 12% PC class don't means 12% adventurers. For example, most wizards have a profession (merchant, librarian, apothecary...) in their day-to-day life.

 

[Blacksad]

Re: Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

Bonsoir mes ami Gez et Blacksad (you see I am okay on the simple stuff)

Bonne Nuit U_K!

Effronte

Won't you also then need to extend the Great Fortitude; Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes feats to compensate?

why not, but only in my campaign I think (see below)

Why not just leave it the way it is - seems well enough balanced.

Another house rule just to compensate for the initial addendums failings - you can see why I am reticent to advocate this!

I don't know if theres a case for allowing Spell Penetration to stack indefinately though.

I understand, so my house rule probably wouldn't fit in the IH, but the reverse might work:

except improved spell resistance and the heightened abilities feats, no feats that increase save, skill, or DC stack

So simply disallowing improved spell resistance to be taken multiple times would work?

Wouldn't that retain previous flaws though.

Surely (New)CR+11 is the easiest and most credible?

Some monster are inteded to have a good or bad SR vs character of the appropriate CR, with your formula all monster would have an average SR, while some monster where intended with a bad or good SR (dragon have a low SR for their relative power, I think that this was intentional, to make dragon a fun opponent: i.e. the fighter can hit the dragon with his sword the mage with her fireball, if it isn't too big the rogue can sneak, etc...