Use of thee and thou and other archaic language

[johnsemlak]

Can someone save me some googling and give my a summary of how thee, thou, art, ye, and other common archaic pronouns or other words were used in English?

When did they fall into disuse?

thanks in advance

 

[Tanager]

If memory serves, thou/thee are the 2nd person singular subject and object cases, while Ye/You are the second person plural subject/object.

In formal or polite conversation the plural set would be used when referring to a singular subject while in more familiar conversation the singular would be used (similar French usage of tu/vous).

Through the course of the 15th-17th centuries the plural slowly levelled out loosing 'ye' and using 'you' for both subject and object, and from there the singular and the plural merged leaving you as the sole second person pronoun.

 

[Bront]

Tanager has it right (At least the concept of it disapearing).

The theory I heard, is that someone got the bright idea to suck up to a ruler by using the plural You when refering to him. After a while, vain nobles insisted on being treated as such as well, and it eventualy trickled down till everyone did it to everyone.

I don't know how true that is, but it sounds about right for human nature.

 

[Renton]

Of course some of those archaic pronoun forms lingered around in dialects till quite recently.

Generally speaking thou is the nominative form, thee the objective form, and thine the posessive, all second person singular.

Ye as a second person plural pronoun could be nominative or objective. It is also an abbreviation of "the", using the "thorn" character as the "th", which survives in pseudo-archaic names, like the "ye olde" sign you see on shops.

 

[diaglo]

a few examples i use all the time.

thou art a codfish.

i go to yon ye olde shoppe to purchase some wares.

Ophelia, get thee to a nunnery.

 

[Thunderfoot]

thou art a codfish.

i go to yon ye olde shoppe to purchase some wares.

Ophelia, get thee to a nunnery.

Diaglo - your second sentence is atrocious!!!
It should read as any of the following:
1) I make haste to yon shoppe to purchase wares.
2) Get thee hence to ye olde shoppe and purchase wares for me.
"yon" and "ye olde" should never be used back to back like that, I am ashamed and appalled!
Get thee hence to the master of discipline and have thine back scourged you cur!

 

[Thunderfoot]

<SNIP>a summary of how thee, thou, art, ye, and other common archaic pronouns or other words were used in English?
<SNIP>

Technically, these are modern words (after the 10th century) not archaic - even if the are older than dirt. Old English in it's truest form would be unreadable, unpronouncable and indecipherable to the modern English speaker. (Hey, study in old world languages finally paid off.)

 

[johnsemlak]

Technically, these are modern words (after the 10th century) not archaic - even if the are older than dirt. Old English in it's truest form would be unreadable, unpronouncable and indecipherable to the modern English speaker. (Hey, study in old world languages finally paid off.)

I know what you mean by 'old English', but I would maintain that words like thee, thou, etc. have fallen out of use, and are thus archaic. Plus, the use of such words is a way of referring to the past.

Real Old English (what Beowulf was written in) isn't archaic, it's a dead langauge.

 

[diaglo]

Diaglo - your second sentence is atrocious!!!
It should read as any of the following:
1) I make haste to yon shoppe to purchase wares.
2) Get thee hence to ye olde shoppe and purchase wares for me.
"yon" and "ye olde" should never be used back to back like that, I am ashamed and appalled!
Get thee hence to the master of discipline and have thine back scourged you cur!

hee hee. anon....

 

[Thunderfoot]

I know what you mean by 'old English', but I would maintain that words like thee, thou, etc. have fallen out of use, and are thus archaic. Plus, the use of such words is a way of referring to the past.

Real Old English (what Beowulf was written in) isn't archaic, it's a dead langauge.

Ah, Beowulf, how I've suffered at the hands of this ode, novel, poem, saga...whatever it is it was just plain hard!
Unfortunately, Old English isn't a dead language - it's a root language, though it isn't spoken in direct form, the original roots are still in an evolutionary state and are very much a part of modern English. Unfortunately, there are very few dead languages left. Even Latin is in a state of linguistic flux at the moment.
Latin is supposedly a dead and therefore used by legal and scientific organizations so that their language, doesn't change, however in recent years, neo-latin (applying latin roots to modern words) may pull it back into the realms of the mucking about (which is kind of funny because it's the medicos and legal eagles that have done the most damage.) .
It's funny in a way, as we become a more modernized, world society, we look to the past for answers to the future. A good thing, but we have done such extensive study, that we have ressurected dead languages, reintroduced dead cultures and reinvigorated dead societies. It's like we can't let sleeping (dead) dogs lie.