Using a greatsword and a buckler

[Mal Malenkirk]

Am I reading this right : You can use a a buckler and get the AC bonus while fighting with a great sword in exchange for a -1 to hit?

Playing the computer game "Temple of Elemental Evil" brought that tidbit of information to my attention and reading the books seems to confirm it.

SRD :

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.
You can’t bash someone with a buckler.

-1 to hit, +1 to AC. That's like a low level expertise. But if I enchant my buckler...

Add this to the new 3.5 Power attack (+2 to damage for -1 to hit when using a Two handed weapon) and it seems the deck is stacked ridiculously in favor of two-handed weapon fighting VS Weapon and shield and and two weapon fighting.

I'm not complaining much though, I chose a Greatsword for my latest warrior. It just doesn't seem optimum to use anything else at the time, though.

 

[nimisgod]

When you attack with the Greatsword, you don't get the AC bonus from the buckler. Besides that, how you said it is exactly how I rule fighting with 2H weapons and bucklers.

 

[Scion]

?

SRD:
In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

From your own quote. With a two handed weapon you are useing both hands to weild a weapon, therefore there is a weapon in your offhand that you are useing.

 

[Legildur]

Certainly using a buckler may not be the optimum sword and board style, but it does allow some flexibility.

I have an elven fighter wielding a longsword and using a buckler. This allows him to shift easily to wielding the longsword in both hands when he needs to hit hard without taking the Move Action to loose a larger shield. He has the Whirlwind Attack feat chain and so using the buckler (and Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively [5 ranks in Tumble]) to get into trouble, and then wielding two-handed to get out of trouble, seems to work for him.

It also means that he doesn't need to pick the shield up again if he wants to resume using it. However, it does mean taking a -1 attack penalty when wielding the longsword two-handed, but the trade-off is worth it IMHO.

The other advantage is that he can use his long bow until the last possible moment before drawing his longsword, and have protection from the buckler when he does that rather than taking an additional move action to ready a larger shield.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

?

SRD:
In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

From your own quote. With a two handed weapon you are useing both hands to weild a weapon, therefore there is a weapon in your offhand that you are useing.

Well, that's not how the PC game handled it (The ToEE is a PC game that uses 3.5 D&D rules fairly accurately).

Furtermore, Off-hand is not a term that you apply to fighting with a two-handed weapon. If they wanted to apply it to fighting a with a two-handed weapon, they should have been more explicit.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I have adressed this very question (2-handed weapon and buckler) to WotC CS and they have replied that yes, you take a penalty because of the extra weight on your arm.

Do with this what you will.

AR

 

[Legildur]

But Mal, from your quote at the beginning of the thread:

...You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so...

(my emphasis).

It is clear that you take the -1 attack penalty when wielding a weapon two-handed while wearing a buckler.

 

[AuraSeer]

It is clear that you take the -1 attack penalty when wielding a weapon two-handed while wearing a buckler.

The -1 penalty isn't what he's talking about in his last post.

By the book, if you attack with an off-hand or two-hand weapon, you cannot use the buckler for protection and you lose its AC bonus for that round. (You still suffer the -1 attack penalty.) The computer game omits this restriction for simplicity, making the greatsword/buckler combo more powerful than it is under the regular rules.

 

[Legildur]

The -1 penalty isn't what he's talking about in his last post.

Whoops. I Understand now. There is a feat in Complete Warrior that allows you to keep the shield bonus to AC for the buckler when attacking with an off-hand weapon. However, the wording does not seem to allow for that to apply when wielding a weapon two-handed.

But that doesn't take away that the greatsword/buckler combo is more powerful under that modified ruleset in the game.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

They should be more careful with their wording then.

If that's what they meant, it should say:

In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand or fight with a two-handed weapon, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

I added the text in bold.

Otherwise you could interpret the text to assume you take a -1 to hit but can still gain the AC when fighting with a two-handed weapon, especially considering they detailed both situation in the previous sentence but only mention one (off-hand weapon) in the next.

While I'm on it, if you fight with two weapons and have a buckler on your off-hand, it seems you take a penalty on all your attacks including those made with the primary weapon (you know, the one without a buckler straped on it).

There's what common sense tells you and then there's what they actually wrote.