Using VP/WP and Damage Reducing Armor in D20 Modern

[Wolfspider]

In order to make my coming D20 Modern Delta Green/CoC a bit more deadly/"realistic" I'm thinking of implimenting the VP/WP damage system and making armor absorb damage. Any suggestions in implementing these changes? Any potential pitfalls?

 

[Mistwell]

Charles Ryan has a brief conversion rule in his Ultramodern Firearms book that just came out. I seem to recall it is something about increaseing the die of damage from a gun by one full die if using the wound/vitality system (so if a gun does 2d6 normally, it now does 3d6). But I would re-check that to confirm, before implementing it.

 

[jaerdaph]

Charles Ryan has a brief conversion rule in his Ultramodern Firearms book that just came out. I seem to recall it is something about increaseing the die of damage from a gun by one full die if using the wound/vitality system (so if a gun does 2d6 normally, it now does 3d6). But I would re-check that to confirm, before implementing it.

Mistwell is correct - that is the rule from Ultramodern Firearms.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My recommendation:

a) keep the existing d20M hit point mechanic, and use the variant that sets MDT = 10 for all heroes.

b) let armour provide DR against attacks.

The former recommendation is because (although a major fan of WP/VP for several years) I now think that the low MDT is a better way of handling lethality. You'll need to make less changes to stuff this way too.

The second recommendation is purely based on personal taste, and its what I'm going to do

Cheers

(BTW, I disagree with charles about adding an extra die to gun damage if using WP/VP. He is suggesting it to bring guns up to parity with blasters... but they *shouldn't* have parity with blasters!)

 

[Wolfspider]

OK...I have one problem with the WP/VP system. Should damage reduction apply only to WP damage or to both WP and VP? Having armor only protect against WP damage makes sense since WP represents actual physical damage taken and VP represents other things. But consider this scenario. A street thug using a knife whittles down the hero's VP until they reach zero...and then suddenly, attacks that were successful before are stopped cold by the hero's 5 points of damage reducing armor, meaning that suddenly an effective weapon becomes completely ineffective just at the point where victory is assured.

Any suggestions about a fix or reinterpretation?

Thanks!

 

[tetsujin28]

Having five points of armour, IIRC, is like being in a full tactical suit, so a dagger really shouldn't do much. That said, the thug can still do a fair amount of damage on a critical, and any Vitality damage (again, IIRC) requires a saving throw to avoid being stunned.

 

[Ron]

Personally, I don't think that introducing VP/WP will turn the game more realistic. In fact, it will make explicity anunrealistic feature of d20's hit points, which is the WP factor. Also, I think it is a poor design choice to have two stats that, in essence, represent the same thing. Hit points increase with levels is justified by the fact that the character becames a better fighter and so more able to avoid killing damage. However, this is exactly the same fact simulated by the defense stat and therefore my complaint.

If you really want to make it more realistic, consider using a fixed hit point value. Perhaps Con or Con+1/2Str will be adequate. As hit points are fixed and represent the actual ability of absorving damage, you could use the defense stat without redundancy.

Regarding armor absorving damage, I have no issue with current rules. I interpret that any roll which is a miss because of the armor bonus is a hit where the damage was absorved by the armor. Unlike the hit point increase/defense bonus, there is no inconsistency with the armor rules. It may be simplistic but it does makes sense.

 

[Morgenstern]

OK...I have one problem with the WP/VP system. Should damage reduction apply only to WP damage or to both WP and VP? Having armor only protect against WP damage makes sense since WP represents actual physical damage taken and VP represents other things. But consider this scenario. A street thug using a knife whittles down the hero's VP until they reach zero...and then suddenly, attacks that were successful before are stopped cold by the hero's 5 points of damage reducing armor, meaning that suddenly an effective weapon becomes completely ineffective just at the point where victory is assured.

Any suggestions about a fix or reinterpretation?

Thanks!

In Spycraft (the only wp/vp system I know about other than SW) armor provides its DR to all pysical attacks. If you are interested in looking at a list of modern day armor with that balance in mind, you might check out the free Spycraft Lite download at www.SpycraftRPG.com

Basically I agree with your reasoning - those nicks, scratches and heroic near misses are partially contributed to by the fact that you are wearing the armor. I don't really understand why the SW works the way it does, providing so little benefit as to be laughable .

 

[Siridar]

Traveller d20 uses something similar to the WP/VP system.

Lifeblood=Con and Stamina=Hit points in the normal sense (ie: they increase with levels). Damage is done to both, except that armor reduces damage done to Lifeblood but not Stamina. When you reach 0 Stamina you are unconcious and when your Lifeblood reaches 0 you are dying. Massive damage is ignored, mainly because anything that could cause enough damage to force a massive damage check will probably kill the character.

It's more detailed in Traveller Lite

It's real important to just not get hit in that game. With that in mind you may want to change Lifeblood to either be Conx1.5 or x2, or possibly increase with levels as well, say +1 per level.

 

[Ranger REG]

Basically I agree with your reasoning - those nicks, scratches and heroic near misses are partially contributed to by the fact that you are wearing the armor. I don't really understand why the SW works the way it does, providing so little benefit as to be laughable .

Personally, if it were, it should provide bonus to Defense, as well as DR.

But the consensus of feedback prefer that armor simply provide DR. Period.

Sorry, but I favor that DR provide protection for Wound Point. As you said, armor may be partially contributed but damage factor to VP are broad (near misses, rolling with the punches, grazes, etc.)