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D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

xanatos

First Post
Yeah and 99% of creatures don't need Turn Resistance either. :p
But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!


Should be a fairly even match up - of course if you pander to your opponents strengths you deserve to get spanked (if I were a Balor I wouldn't necessarily wade in unprepared against that heavily armed Fighter waving the glowing Battle Axe.
Ah... But this is something totally different... Even goblins could win if they adopted guerilla warfare... The standard combat is around six/eight rounds (counting the initial round of Ranged combat) and is based on the fact that the monster will fight here and there till death. He won't try to escape and he won't surrender (the standard plot is that the monster is a guardian... If the party can make the monster run away, the party has won because they can enter the next room/take the big treasur/???)
A monster that wants to use hit-and-run tactics is better described by raising the difficulty of the encounter

If you travel to another plane then you are the Outsider. :p
[/QUOTE]
No... You are only non-native. Not all the spells will work against you! (some work only against outsiders) but with the 3.0/3.5 they have reworded many spells so that they target non-native beings.

---Bye
 

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Kavon

Explorer
Upper_Krust said:
Hiya Kavon matey! :)

Hey U_K :) Thanks for the quick reply (I guess..or should I just go to bed now? o.o)

Upper_Krust said:
Good luck.

Chalk up another application of my CR system. ;)

:D

Upper_Krust said:
Instead why don't you keep the EXP Tables but just let the characters freeform with up to +1 worth of CR instead of 'levelling up'!?

I guess I'm influences by all these video games too much (like, Final Fantasy Tactics and its job points) :eek:
Hmm... The player would be able to 'fill up' 1000 XP till the next level, with 0.1 CR costing 100 XP. If they're working on filling an ability up (let's say they go for some bigger ability.. 1+ CR or whatever) and they level up like this.. Let's say the character had 500 XP (at level 1) when it started learning that 1 CR ability.. The character would first spend 500 XP on the ability, 'becomes' level 2, and would need to spend 1000 XP to finish it (since the character would need 2000 XP for its 3rd level, which makes 0.1 CR cost 200 XP).
It rather depends on the individual player I guess. I think some people would enjoy gaining things right as they 'train' for them, while others like to pick things after some gaming. I guess it would be optional which way to do it (either way would be fine with me).

Upper_Krust said:
All the various HDs are listed in the Design Parameters for classes (the percentages listed are percentages of 1 point of CR)

Ok. Let's see... 1 HP is (about) 0.03 CR, right?
Hmm... 30 XP per HP instead of throwing dice? :p (might be going a bit too far if I do this).

Upper_Krust said:

:)

Upper_Krust said:
You have it right.

I amaze myself in my semi-sleeping state :eek:

Upper_Krust said:
Thats the whole point isn't it. :D

Yep :D
I'm starting to get into it now I think (it always helps when I'm trying to do something for myself with things like this).

Upper_Krust said:
Should be okay. It will teach your players why not to overspecialise in one area.

Yeah.
I'm wondering where to set the limit on some of the things now though.
Like.. Would it be ok for a player to get more than one dice of HP in one 'level'? More than 1 BAB increase? Etc..
On one side I don't really see a problem, since they pay for what they get.. But on the other side, I think about all the limits set in the standard game, and it makes me wonder if I should restrict it here and there (like, only one Weapon Focus per weapon, stuff like that).
Oh.. What do you think about increasing ability scores this way? Would it be too much? Allow it, but limit it greatly (like the 1 per 4 levels in the normal level progression)?

Upper_Krust said:
Hey! Thats what I suggested.

Hehe :D


*mumbles on..*

Hmm.. Bed time! *drops to the floor*

Edit: Oh! Oh! Almost forgot!
How do you think I should handle character creation with something like this?
300-500 XP to 'buy' racial abilities? How much would the initial class abilities be? 1000 XP or something like that?
Oh, just remembered another thing I wasn't sure about.. Treasure. They'd.. be paying XP for their treasure like this. That thought makes my mind warp right now.. It doesn't sound right :eek:
 
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codewarriorpro

First Post
Hi UK,

I've got two questions. What are the CR for the following:

1. 1,000 Orcs (I've just finished reading R.A. Salvatore's "The Thousands Orcs")? I think you rate 1 orc to be 2/3 CR = (2/3 EL) So adding 999 would give you EL 2/3+13=EL 13 right? So a 17th Level Fighter could go out there and expend 25% of his resources , win 87.5% of the time, and gain 5,100 Experience Points.

2. Thanos from Marvel Comics?
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

xanatos said:
But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!

Well it should be (in terms of Hardness anyway). :p

xanatos said:
Ah... But this is something totally different... Even goblins could win if they adopted guerilla warfare... The standard combat is around six/eight rounds (counting the initial round of Ranged combat) and is based on the fact that the monster will fight here and there till death. He won't try to escape and he won't surrender (the standard plot is that the monster is a guardian... If the party can make the monster run away, the party has won because they can enter the next room/take the big treasur/???)
A monster that wants to use hit-and-run tactics is better described by raising the difficulty of the encounter

I said it was even. I just don't want people coming back at me and biting my @ss with tales of how they defeated a Balor single-handedly when they were 24th-level or somesuch caper. :rolleyes:

xanatos said:
No... You are only non-native. Not all the spells will work against you! (some work only against outsiders) but with the 3.0/3.5 they have reworded many spells so that they target non-native beings.

How many spells is that exactly? :p
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Kavon said:
Hey U_K :) Thanks for the quick reply (I guess..or should I just go to bed now? o.o)

:D

Kavon said:
I guess I'm influences by all these video games too much (like, Final Fantasy Tactics and its job points) :eek:

I haven't had the pleasure of that game as yet.

Kavon said:
Hmm... The player would be able to 'fill up' 1000 XP till the next level, with 0.1 CR costing 100 XP. If they're working on filling an ability up (let's say they go for some bigger ability.. 1+ CR or whatever) and they level up like this.. Let's say the character had 500 XP (at level 1) when it started learning that 1 CR ability.. The character would first spend 500 XP on the ability, 'becomes' level 2, and would need to spend 1000 XP to finish it (since the character would need 2000 XP for its 3rd level, which makes 0.1 CR cost 200 XP).

Exactly, but I thought that might be a bit too complex and that just keeping the EXP Tables defined

Kavon said:
It rather depends on the individual player I guess. I think some people would enjoy gaining things right as they 'train' for them, while others like to pick things after some gaming. I guess it would be optional which way to do it (either way would be fine with me).

Maybe put everything into 'feat size peices'.

Kavon said:
Ok. Let's see... 1 HP is (about) 0.03 CR, right?
Hmm... 30 XP per HP instead of throwing dice? :p (might be going a bit too far if I do this).

Yep.

Kavon said:
I amaze myself in my semi-sleeping state

I'm halfway there myself.

Kavon said:
Yep :D
I'm starting to get into it now I think (it always helps when I'm trying to do something for myself with things like this).

:)

Kavon said:
Yeah.
I'm wondering where to set the limit on some of the things now though.
Like.. Would it be ok for a player to get more than one dice of HP in one 'level'? More than 1 BAB increase? Etc..
On one side I don't really see a problem, since they pay for what they get.. But on the other side, I think about all the limits set in the standard game, and it makes me wonder if I should restrict it here and there (like, only one Weapon Focus per weapon, stuff like that).
Oh.. What do you think about increasing ability scores this way? Would it be too much? Allow it, but limit it greatly (like the 1 per 4 levels in the normal level progression)?

Let them pick whatever they want. Like I said before, over specialisation in a certain area will eventually catch them out.

Kavon said:
*mumbles on..*

Hmm.. Bed time! *drops to the floor*

I should be so lucky. :p

Kavon said:
Edit: Oh! Oh! Almost forgot!
How do you think I should handle character creation with something like this?
300-500 XP to 'buy' racial abilities? How much would the initial class abilities be? 1000 XP or something like that?

Give them 1 CR worth to play with at 1st-level, make sure they take at least d4 hp.

Kavon said:
Oh, just remembered another thing I wasn't sure about.. Treasure. They'd.. be paying XP for their treasure like this. That thought makes my mind warp right now.. It doesn't sound right :eek:

One PC level of treasure is worth one feat.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
codewarriorpro said:

Hiya mate! :)

codewarriorpro said:
I've got two questions. What are the CR for the following:

1. 1,000 Orcs (I've just finished reading R.A. Salvatore's "The Thousands Orcs")? I think you rate 1 orc to be 2/3 CR = (2/3 EL) So adding 999 would give you EL 2/3+13=EL 13 right? So a 17th Level Fighter could go out there and expend 25% of his resources , win 87.5% of the time, and gain 5,100 Experience Points.

Well I have been going over v4.1 (with Wulfs ideas implemented) and 1000 Orcs would be EL 16; whereas a 17th-level Fighter would be EL 17.

So thats pretty much a 50/50 encounter; tipped slightly in favour of Driz'zt.

Of course it assumes all the Orcs were 1st-level Warriors; which is unlikely(?); though I haven't read that book yet...but I did see Todd Lockwoods original cover art up close and personal at Euro Gencon earlier this year.

codewarriorpro said:
2. Thanos from Marvel Comics?

In spirit shall we say. ;)

By the way I picked up the first issue of the new Thanos comic and it looks interesting, though I must say I am still unsure where Starlin is taking the character.

I also picked up the new issues of Thor (#70) and JLA*Avengers (#2) both excellent.

The JLA*Avengers title is simply fantastic (probably the best comic I have ever read in fact); though I was shocked to see Superman capable of lifting/halting Mjolnir and doubly shocked to see Thor knocked out by Superman...the ignominy of it all*. :eek:

*albeit accompanied by some classic dialogue.

...though for such an afront Supes does himself get subsequently knocked out by a combined assault from Hercules; She Hulk; Iron Man; Vision and Wonder Man. That'll teach the blaggard.
 

Kavon

Explorer
Upper_Krust said:
Hiya mate! :)

Hey again :) (ugh..didn't get enough sleep x__x )

Upper_Krust said:
I haven't had the pleasure of that game as yet.

Might be worth a try :D

Upper_Krust said:
Exactly, but I thought that might be a bit too complex and that just keeping the EXP Tables defined.

Yeah, I know it will make it more complex, but I think my players wont mind that too much.

Upper_Krust said:
Maybe put everything into 'feat size peices'.

Hmm... Yeah, I could do it that way, though that would just make for the same result only slightly less detailed. I like the idea though. ;)

Upper_Krust said:

Hmm... That was 6 for one feat right?
Do you think it'd be alright if I remove the randomness of dice for HP?
Hmm... Now that I think about it, my players might want to roll dice anyway (they prefer the randomness of 4d6 drop one over the point buy system).

Upper_Krust said:
Let them pick whatever they want. Like I said before, over specialisation in a certain area will eventually catch them out.

Alright, sounds good to me.

Upper_Krust said:
I should be so lucky. :p

Well, I hope you had more sleep than me :D

Upper_Krust said:
Give them 1 CR worth to play with at 1st-level, make sure they take at least d4 hp.

Alright. However, if I do that, they would start out a bit weaker than in the normal rules because at level one a character has a full level worth in a class, but they also have their racial abilities (which would be ignored in the actual CR calculations, but in terms of power they are still there).
It would be something like starting at apprentice level (the multiclass at 1st level bit), instead of 1st level.

Upper_Krust said:
One PC level of treasure is worth one feat.

Yes, I know. I'm just not sure how to implement it with the system I'm thinking of.
They'd be able to gain more than one level's worth of treasure, but they'd be spending their XP on it. I don't know how I should justify them finding treasure in a dungeon in exchange for their XP (so to speak).
 

xanatos

First Post
But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!
Well it should be (in terms of Hardness anyway).
Logic and DnD don't mix well... And even if the Body of Iron was computed with Hardness, would you make the colossus pay less for the Hardness just because it's Hardness with a Weakness (Rust Monster) instead of being Hardness without a Weakness (Very High Level Barbarian... Ointed by the Gods...)

---Bye
 

xanatos

First Post
AC Bonus: +0.1/point
Attack Bonus: +0.1/point
Reach: +/-0.1/ft above/below 5 ft
Space: -0.2/size category above medium
Ability Scores: +/-0.1/point
Speed: +/-0.1/10 ft above/below 30 ft

AC and Attack should be a single line valued +0.2/point (as it's in the MM3.5)
Reach should be +/- 0.5 per 5 feets above/below 5 ft (it's a quantized unit, the feet... DnD use blocks of 5 feets)

I think that perhaps weight allowance should be perhaps +/-0.1 per size category. Though it should be +0.2 without an actual size increase since Larger sizes mean you need larger (and heavier) equipment; generally speaking.
??? If you need a bigger sword, then you are larger... Hercules can't use Huge Swords!

Another small problem: Do you consider Colossal Creatures to be 6x6 (as in standard MM3.5) with a Reach of 6 squares (so probably they should get an extra 0.2 for size over the "linear" (5x5) one + the 6 hexes Reach) or 5x5 with 5 reach?

--- Bye
 
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Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hiya mate! :)

Kavon said:
Hey again :) (ugh..didn't get enough sleep x__x )

Must have missed this post. :eek:

Kavon said:
Hmm... That was 6 for one feat right?

Yep.

Kavon said:
Do you think it'd be alright if I remove the randomness of dice for HP?

I don't know - you are a pioneer here. :)

Kavon said:
Hmm... Now that I think about it, my players might want to roll dice anyway (they prefer the randomness of 4d6 drop one over the point buy system).

Sound like dice people to me. :D

Kavon said:
Alright. However, if I do that, they would start out a bit weaker than in the normal rules because at level one a character has a full level worth in a class, but they also have their racial abilities (which would be ignored in the actual CR calculations, but in terms of power they are still there).
It would be something like starting at apprentice level (the multiclass at 1st level bit), instead of 1st level.

You could still give them the racial traits for free.

Kavon said:
Yes, I know. I'm just not sure how to implement it with the system I'm thinking of.

Where theres a will theres a way.

Kavon said:
They'd be able to gain more than one level's worth of treasure, but they'd be spending their XP on it. I don't know how I should justify them finding treasure in a dungeon in exchange for their XP (so to speak).

I wouldn't have them 'spend' EXP (they might need that for spellcasting and the like) I would just let them choose the abilities commensurate with their 'level'.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey xanatos mate! :)

xanatos said:
AC and Attack should be a single line valued +0.2/point (as it's in the MM3.5)

I can see that confusing people.

xanatos said:
Reach should be +/- 0.5 per 5 feets above/below 5 ft (it's a quantized unit, the feet... DnD use blocks of 5 feets)

I'm thinking that Reach should be +/- 0.2/5 ft.

Space should be +/- 0.1/size category difference from medium.

xanatos said:
??? If you need a bigger sword, then you are larger... Hercules can't use Huge Swords!

If your weight allowance is doubled but you are still the same size then your equipment weighs the same but you can carry much more sundrie items (gp etc.)

xanatos said:
Another small problem: Do you consider Colossal Creatures to be 6x6 (as in standard MM3.5) with a Reach of 6 squares (so probably they should get an extra 0.2 for size over the "linear" (5x5) one + the 6 hexes Reach) or 5x5 with 5 reach?

Reach should be 30 ft. I think.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hi all! :)

Okay I have been working away on v4.1 and v4.2 - the reformatting is taking a bit longer than usual.

I must say I do like Wulfs new EL ideas, much simpler.

As ever though the devil is in the details, so its not quite finished just yet.

However, I was just thinking that the revised CR scores (for v4.2) may not be so problematic since all you need to do add the ability scores given and remove any size modifiers to ability scores. Of course I still don't plan on undertaking the entire endeavour myself, but I would have thought a small team of people (including myself) working on the problem could divide the monsters up and have all the scores revised in a day...say a page each; so we need four volunteers. :)
 

Kavon

Explorer
Upper_Krust said:
Hiya mate! :)

Hey U_K :)


Upper_Krust said:
Must have missed this post. :eek:

Ah, don't worry about it ;)

Upper_Krust said:
I don't know - you are a pioneer here. :)

Yeah, I guess that's true :p
Hmm.. Well, I'll be explaining this to my friends tomorrow or something, so I guess I'll ask them what they think about it.

Upper_Krust said:
Sound like dice people to me. :D

Yeah, they sure are :D
I think I could just use both methods.
Individual HP buying would ensure you get the HP.
Dice HP buying will have a chance of being higher or lower, so this would be the 'gamble for your XP' choice, or something ;)

Upper_Krust said:
You could still give them the racial traits for free.

Yeah, I realized yesterday evening that they'd need to pick a race, and the races are premade already (with maybe a little freedom here and there, but it'll be a package either way. Anomalies could occur of course, so I'll use a loose hand when they pick their race.

Upper_Krust said:
Where theres a will theres a way.

Hmm... Yeah, I guess I'll figure something out.

Upper_Krust said:
I wouldn't have them 'spend' EXP (they might need that for spellcasting and the like) I would just let them choose the abilities commensurate with their 'level'.

Hmm... I think it would fit for me, since I prefer to think of XP as something you spend permanently (something you have to pay XP for, but isn't permanent, isn't truely worth the XP, IMO. So I'd change that to a GP cost, or a temporary XP penalty or something allong those lines).
It's like.. If someone gained 1000XP, their character level is increased to 2 irrelevant of what they spent it on (as long as it's permanent, it increases their value and power as a character). This is what I believe to be the best way to handle XP.

Gold is something that can be won or lost, so it makes it more loose in the long shot.
Just have a player gamble a bit, and win allot, they'll get allot more then they should have for their level (it wouldn't be fair to restrict them on this, since it would only be realistic that they should be able to do stuff like that). This is probably also why I have trouble trying to figure out a way for them to get things with material value for XP, while not creating it themselves. XP is not something material. It's the experience of the body, of the mind.
The only way I can think of handling that right now is to let them pay for an 'allowed total GP value' like thing, but then I'd still need to restrict them when they reach the limit. I know I could just say 'NO', and wave the DM stick around, but I know it doesn't make sense to restrict them like that. It's an arguement that I cannot win with my players, because I agree with them, so I need to make it work somehow.

I know I probably have a weird way of viewing XP and GP stuff, but the alternative makes things unbalanced too quickly. For example.. If someone writes a scroll, they spend XP on it. They use the scroll, and they will have lost the XP forever, while their teammates still have the XP. All that for one one-time spell. The scroll writer will be behind on the rest, but they gained the exact same amount of XP. This is why I believe that for whatever the player pays XP for, it should be permanent, or it should return the XP that was spent when the thing that it was used on is useless.

Hmm... I guess I could let them get GP value in advance, and any future XP will be forced to be put in there untill they paid it off. If they lose GP value, I'll just free some XP up for them? GP value is temporary like a scroll.. So the XP they spent on it should also be temporarily spent in that way.
Hmm... Ranting helps me think of things it seems :eek:

Edit: Hmm... Would it be possible to somehow get to know how you built all the classes? As in.. How much you ranked for everything? It would be very usefull to use as an example to see how to do things exactly. I'd be mostly guessing at some things without it.

Hmm... There was something else... Oh yeah. With spell-like abilities and the like.. One of the multipliers has spell level. Allot of abilities have the spell level tied to the character level.. How would I take this into account?
 
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Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
I'm in!

Upper_Krust said:
Hi all! :)

Okay I have been working away on v4.1 and v4.2 - the reformatting is taking a bit longer than usual.

I must say I do like Wulfs new EL ideas, much simpler.

As ever though the devil is in the details, so its not quite finished just yet.

However, I was just thinking that the revised CR scores (for v4.2) may not be so problematic since all you need to do add the ability scores given and remove any size modifiers to ability scores. Of course I still don't plan on undertaking the entire endeavour myself, but I would have thought a small team of people (including myself) working on the problem could divide the monsters up and have all the scores revised in a day...say a page each; so we need four volunteers. :)

Hey Krust!

You can count me in! Just tell where to begin and where to end and I'll get started right away.

Only fair since I've been one of the more insistent on ability modifiers being included.

As you say, I don't think it'll be problematic. Just subtract ability modifiers from size from listed CR and calculate the monster in question's modifiers and compare to size standard. Voila! ;)
Only question is: should the current CR rating (fx +1.2 for Large) still be used and then the difference added/subtracted, or should the calculation be from scratch?

See ya.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
Upper_Krust said:
I must say I do like Wulfs new EL ideas, much simpler.

As ever though the devil is in the details, so its not quite finished just yet.

However, I was just thinking that the revised CR scores (for v4.2) may not be so problematic since all you need to do add the ability scores given and remove any size modifiers to ability scores. Of course I still don't plan on undertaking the entire endeavour myself, but I would have thought a small team of people (including myself) working on the problem could divide the monsters up and have all the scores revised in a day...say a page each; so we need four volunteers. :)

I should also volunteer, I know, but I just have too much on my plate at the moment trying to finish up Grim Tales. I fear my brain is pretty fried at the moment, I don't trust myself around "complex" math like addition and subtraction!

If you give me very specific directions, and all the monsters are from MMI 3.5, and you think I can do it in just a couple of hours, then I will be happy to help.

I am glad you like the EL calculations-- I am very gratified to have contributed something back to what I consider a piece of very brilliant design.

Wulf
 

ciaran00

First Post
Kavon said:
I know I probably have a weird way of viewing XP and GP stuff, but the alternative makes things unbalanced too quickly. For example.. If someone writes a scroll, they spend XP on it. They use the scroll, and they will have lost the XP forever, while their teammates still have the XP. All that for one one-time spell. The scroll writer will be behind on the rest, but they gained the exact same amount of XP. This is why I believe that for whatever the player pays XP for, it should be permanent, or it should return the XP that was spent when the thing that it was used on is useless.
This is not very consistent. Say a player makes a weapon, and then it eventually fails (say it's a Wand of Fire). He is still left without XP, yes? What if the player uses the scroll to break into a vault to gain an item that balances (or greatly unbalances) him from the rest of the party? What if the player lives because he made a fireball scroll and used it to save his life (because he ran out of spells)? Isn't surviving imminent death otherwise a permanent effect bestowed by the scroll which is justifiable by a permanent tap of XP?

Aren't wands like scrolls that eventually run out too? What about a ring of free action inside an antimagic shell? A player scarfs down a bag of chips shouldn't get refunded after he's done because he's now taken care of his hunger.

Also, the player is making this choice. If it's not worth it to him to make a scroll then he shouldn't. Point is, that he is... he wants his character to be more effective... and if he wants it in THIS particular fashion then he HAS to pay with XP. No refunds.

ciaran
 
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Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Kavon said:

Hiya mate! :)

Kavon said:
Yeah, I guess that's true
Hmm.. Well, I'll be explaining this to my friends tomorrow or something, so I guess I'll ask them what they think about it.

Okay.

Kavon said:
Yeah, they sure are :D

Tell them I said hi! :)

Kavon said:
I think I could just use both methods.
Individual HP buying would ensure you get the HP.
Dice HP buying will have a chance of being higher or lower, so this would be the 'gamble for your XP' choice, or something

Well the problem with simply using individual hit points (rather than HD) is that you don't gain the benefit of any CON bonuses.

So it might be best to keep HD rather than hp.

Kavon said:
Yeah, I realized yesterday evening that they'd need to pick a race, and the races are premade already (with maybe a little freedom here and there, but it'll be a package either way. Anomalies could occur of course, so I'll use a loose hand when they pick their race.

Okay.

Kavon said:
Hmm... I think it would fit for me, since I prefer to think of XP as something you spend permanently (something you have to pay XP for, but isn't permanent, isn't truely worth the XP, IMO. So I'd change that to a GP cost, or a temporary XP penalty or something allong those lines).

It's like.. If someone gained 1000XP, their character level is increased to 2 irrelevant of what they spent it on (as long as it's permanent, it increases their value and power as a character). This is what I believe to be the best way to handle XP.

Gold is something that can be won or lost, so it makes it more loose in the long shot.
Just have a player gamble a bit, and win allot, they'll get allot more then they should have for their level (it wouldn't be fair to restrict them on this, since it would only be realistic that they should be able to do stuff like that). This is probably also why I have trouble trying to figure out a way for them to get things with material value for XP, while not creating it themselves. XP is not something material. It's the experience of the body, of the mind.
The only way I can think of handling that right now is to let them pay for an 'allowed total GP value' like thing, but then I'd still need to restrict them when they reach the limit. I know I could just say 'NO', and wave the DM stick around, but I know it doesn't make sense to restrict them like that. It's an arguement that I cannot win with my players, because I agree with them, so I need to make it work somehow.

I know I probably have a weird way of viewing XP and GP stuff, but the alternative makes things unbalanced too quickly. For example.. If someone writes a scroll, they spend XP on it. They use the scroll, and they will have lost the XP forever, while their teammates still have the XP. All that for one one-time spell. The scroll writer will be behind on the rest, but they gained the exact same amount of XP. This is why I believe that for whatever the player pays XP for, it should be permanent, or it should return the XP that was spent when the thing that it was used on is useless.

Hmm... I guess I could let them get GP value in advance, and any future XP will be forced to be put in there untill they paid it off. If they lose GP value, I'll just free some XP up for them? GP value is temporary like a scroll.. So the XP they spent on it should also be temporarily spent in that way.
Hmm... Ranting helps me think of things it seems :eek:

:D

Kavon said:
Edit: Hmm... Would it be possible to somehow get to know how you built all the classes? As in.. How much you ranked for everything? It would be very usefull to use as an example to see how to do things exactly. I'd be mostly guessing at some things without it.

Everythings balanced with regards either feats or with what should be the average for a feat over 20 levels (as with the +6 hit points deviating from the Toughness feat).

Kavon said:
Hmm... There was something else... Oh yeah. With spell-like abilities and the like.. One of the multipliers has spell level. Allot of abilities have the spell level tied to the character level.. How would I take this into account?

Well your caster level would be the same as your CR (which is going to be the same as level if you maintain the core EXP progression)
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hi xanatos mate! :)

xanatos said:
I've sent you an email to agooddesigner@hotmail.com with a pre-alpha of the spreadsheet!

I got that but (as I mentioned in my email) I couldn't open it because theres a problem with my copy of Excel (which was letting me open the previous XL files people have sent, but not this one). I'll try and get hold of another copy over the weekend. :)
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Sorcica said:
Hey Krust!

Hiya mate! :)

Sorcica said:
You can count me in! Just tell where to begin and where to end and I'll get started right away.

Okay, I'll tell you what to do exactly at the bottom of this post.

Sorcica said:
Only fair since I've been one of the more insistent on ability modifiers being included.

Indeed! I hold you personally responsible. :p

Sorcica said:
Only question is: should the current CR rating (fx +1.2 for Large) still be used and then the difference added/subtracted, or should the calculation be from scratch?

I have changed all the Size modifiers in this latest version.

Here are the new Size Mods without ability scores (for use below):

Fine: +0.45
Diminutive: -0.2
Tiny: -0.45
Small: +/-0
Med: +/-0
Large: +0.4
Huge: +0.7
Gargantuan: +1
Colossal: +1
Colossal +: +2.1

Sorcica said:
As you say, I don't think it'll be problematic. Just subtract ability modifiers from size from listed CR and calculate the monster in question's modifiers and compare to size standard. Voila! ;)

Heres what you need to do:

1. Subtract old size modifier
2. Add new size modifier (without ability scores; see above)
3. Factor all ability scores (+0.1 per point over 10; -0.1 per point below 10)
4. Recalculate Golden Rule
5. Recalculate Silver Rule

eg. Aboleth 12.852
1. Subract previous Huge Modifier (-2.4) = 10.452
2. New Huge mod. without Ability Scores (+0.7) = 11.152
3. Factor all ability scores (+4.7) = 15.852
4. Recalculate Golden Rule 15.852 - 8.8* = 7.052 (divide by 2) = 3.526 + 8.8 = 12.326 (12)
5. Recalculate Silver Rule (x0.85) = 10

So the Aboleth would be:
Base: 15.852
Golden Rule: 12.326 (12)
Silver Rule: 10

Your mission should you choose to accept it is to detail all the letter 'A's except the Aboleth (obviously) and the example monsters (Aboleth Mage; Hound Archon Hero) which are not OGL compliant.

NB. Remember when doing Constructs or Undead to remove the original No-Constitution size bonus. ;)

I'll see how you get on after the letter 'A's.

Have fun. :D
 

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